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Post by bleatoid on Oct 7, 2018 0:19:06 GMT
I currently have 3 harmonicas. All bought individually on ebay on a whim over the years for about 40p, including delivery from China. They are not concert quality. Mind you, I can't play them very well, and I've tragically lost one of them, but I do like having a bit of a honk now and then and would like to improve and also build them into my guitar playing more. Blues and Dylan is the target genre. I'm looking for a moderately priced set aimed at someone who isn't ever going to be on stage but is after something of decent quality from a set that will usually have one in the key he is looking for. Any advice anyone? I'm looking at the Sonnyboy's Specials set that seem reasonable and get pretty good reviews plus they have a lessons pack included. Grateful for any advice / insights. Peter |
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 7, 2018 3:07:29 GMT
I've found that the terms musical instrument and cheap are not compatible. I have about 7 harmonicas (5 Marine Band, 2 Blues Harp). I bought five at once, once, and that was quite an outlay for me. I have a Marine Band in C that I've had for years and for the amount of time I played it, when it was my only harmonica, it was fine I really liked what I could do on that harmonica as I learnt to bend notes and play 'crossed (2nd position)' with it. Thinking about it there are 3rd and 4th position that I've never really got into that I could have used it for as well i.e. if that was my only harmonica I could still get more out of it without buying anything else. Now I play in a duo and I find that I use a C and an A most of the time, sometimes we change key to accommodate for these. If I play blues then I'll play cross harp which means that I use the C harp for the key of G and the A harp for the key of E. I use an F if I'm playing in C. Playing in D with traditional D shapes is sometimes a problem but I'll capo up two frets to E on the guitar and use the A harp. I find that a G harp sounds too low. On the other hand an F (which is high if you think of the harmonica keys as a scale with low and high) is a really nice sound. A D is also a nice high sound but after all these years I still don't play my D harmonca enough to have broken it in to my satisfaction. I recently bought an E flat harmonica because we had a song that I thought sounded really good in B flat. Now we've changed it back to G - so my C would work and the E flat will probably gather dust! I'd buy 3 good Hohner Marine Band Harmonicas in the keys of C, A, and F. It takes a while to break them in anyway. How much harmonica playing do you plan on doing? One way to look at it is to think of the songs you already play that you would like to add some harmonica parts to. If there are a couple of songs in the same key then all the better. Now buy a harmonica either in that key or for cross key if it's a blues and spend a few months breaking the harmonica in and adding the part. Do the same with some more songs in 6 months time - the outlay will be staggered and you'll be using the instruments. Another way is to think what keys you usually sing in - buy harmonicas to fit. The alternative would be a set of cheap (unsatisfying) harmonicas in a nice box that don't really get used. One good harmonica that is used a lot is better than 7 in a nice box that hardly get played. (I say this because at the moment I'm using a set of carving chisels that I've finally got around to using after 20 years - they are good chisels, but they have been murmuring at me for 20 years - at the time it was probably an article in a magazine that did it.) Hope it helps - only buy what you absolutely need is my opinion. I've heard there are people out there who earn a living trying to persuade other people to possess things - a set of harmonicas called 'Sonnyboy's Specials' sounds like one of their inventions, and a bit like HAS. The music industry is a bit tacky like that isn't it. You asked. Buy one good harmonica (probably in C), or whatever key is best for your voice (when you find you need another one, buy another good one), use a capo - and put the money you save towards a good mandolin  Martin |
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Post by bleatoid on Oct 7, 2018 9:58:30 GMT
Wow - what a wonderfully comprehensive response - thanks for taking the time to share all that martinrowe - all rock solid sense and very helpful - marine bands it is once I've checked out keys. (Oh - and mando point noted!) Peter |
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Post by bleatoid on Oct 8, 2018 13:31:22 GMT
Well after the excellent post from martinrowe I was off - the suggested three keys will be tickettyboo for my limited repertoire and voice (I can capo down for Every Grain of Sand....) so I decided to investigate Marine Band vendors / packs etc - can't get C, A and F in a three pack but that's fine. What did throw me slightly was finding out that there are multiple Marine Band "subspecies"....from the forum posting below it looks like the answer is the dlx version..... www.bluesharmonica.com/difference_between_marine_bandsPeter |
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 8, 2018 17:15:52 GMT
Peter
That deluxe looks expensive to me (£45) - hey ho. I've found the standard to be OK (around £30).
WhenI bought the Eb from Gear4Music they gave me a discount - worth a try
Martin
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Post by bleatoid on Oct 8, 2018 18:42:39 GMT
It does seem a tad steep Martin, doesn't it!
I was also a little taken aback by the suggestion that the standard models would (allegedly) shred your mouth with their sharp edges then swell up with moisture absorption becoming completely useless in no time.
Thanks for the gear4music tip - I've noticed that some (usually non-major) keys seem to be cheaper for some reason.
And I thought the world of mandolins was strange!
Thanks again Martin - I'll let you know where I get to / what I get!
Peter
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Post by PistolPete on Oct 10, 2018 7:24:21 GMT
I've been playing the harmonica since I was fifteen & still think of it as my first instrument. A 'full' set is 14 harmonicas - all the keys, plus a high G and a low F. In all my years of playing I've only ever had a 'half' set of seven, which covers all the natural keys in second position. It's only been the rare occasions that I've wanted to play with horn players that I felt more would be useful. The only time I've ever owned an official set was when someone bought me this set of Hohner Bluesbands. The harmonicas themselves weren't great, being somewhat tight to play, honky sounding and short-lived, but I did use the case for many years. I will echo martinrowe's sentiment that you get what you pay for with any instrument. That said, I think the point where extra-bang-for-you-buck nosedives is about £30 as opposed to a couple of thousand for a guitar. Unfortunately with harmonicas you need to accept that you will end up replacing them from time to time. You can re-tune them by filing down reeds (a dark art I've never mastered), and replace the reed plates (usually about 2/3 of the cost of a whole new harmonica, if you can find somewhere that has them in stock), but they just don't last a lifetime in the way that a guitar does. I'm not a fan of wooden-combed harmonicas like the Marine Band and the Blues Harp as the way the wood swells up when wet and then shrinks when it dries again tends to give you a less airtight harmonica and can lead to a small gap between the comb and the reed-plate that's about perfect for slicing your lip or catching some facial hair (this is why some players soak them in beer/whisky/water - the comb will expand again and re-seal the harmonica making it airtight again, albeit temporarily). That said, I'm told the ways the wood is treated have got much better over the years & with reasonable care they can still be very good choices. I used to be a big fan of Lee Oskars - but they made some manufacturing change a few years back that means they don't seem to have the ability to outlast other makes in the way they used to. These days I normally go for Hohner Big Rivers, or Special 20s. Although it's the cheaper model I actually prefer the Big River - it's very close to a Marine Band other than the plastic comb & I like the slightly raspier sound you get from them. One last thing, 'Fender' branded harmonicas have appeared everywhere in the last year or so - often booting the Hohner displays out of music shops & I'd avoid those like the plague. The one I bought was out of tune after a single rehearsal - something even the £4-£5 models don't do. |
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 10, 2018 9:31:27 GMT
Glad you joined in Pete. I didn't like the idea of Peter spending money solely on my recommendations - two heads are better than one.
My first Marine Band swelled but I found I learned to play around it (if my memory serves), the most recent ones haven't swelled.
I tried Lee Oskar's - didn't feel right. Perhaps the instrument you first make progress on has a lasting influence - for me it was a Marine Band.
I've never tried a Big River - when I next need one I'll try one of those - thanks.
Ridiculous really - the minefield someone has to navigate just to get started. I wonder how many people have been turned off because they initially bought a naff instrument.
Martin
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Post by PistolPete on Oct 10, 2018 11:06:04 GMT
I tried Lee Oskar's - didn't feel right. Perhaps the instrument you first make progress on has a lasting influence - for me it was a Marine Band. I've never tried a Big River - when I next need one I'll try one of those - thanks. Ridiculous really - the minefield someone has to navigate just to get started. I wonder how many people have been turned off because they initially bought a naff instrument. Martin LOs have a very smooth, sweet tone - if it was a guitar you'd describe it as a 'jazzy' sound. Their 10 hole major diatonic is tuned to slightly different compromises from the way Hohner have traditionally done it, which means it's particularly nice for single note stuff, but chords can sound slightly 'off'. For that reason I'd probably avoid them for Dylan-style rack playing. For me their main advantage was that they played really well straight out of the box with minimal breaking in & they seemed to go twice as long as any of the Hohners for only a couple of pounds more, as I said something changed and first the prices shot way up, and then came back down again, but with a noticeable drop in quality. I hate to poke holes in your theory, but I was a devotee of wooden combs in my first few years of playing (Marine Bands and Blues Harps mostly), converting to plastic ones as I started gigging a bit more seriously  I don't think it's too much of a minefield, really. There's a much better range at the budget end of the market than there was when I started - I grabbed a Stagg 'Howlin Harp Blues' for £5.95 in my local music shop on Saturday morning, as one had gone out of tune at Friday night's gig and it's a perfectly usable thing, if a little thin sounding. As is often pointed out on the main pages of this forum, you can get a really outstanding beginner's acoustic guitar for £200 but newbies still buy £50 guitars online and wonder why they're so hard to play, & this is only the same issue really. The good news is, with the harmonica, £25 puts you in the same kind of territory quality-wise as a £400 guitar. The bad news is you need seven of them and they'll probably only last a year... |
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Post by bleatoid on Oct 10, 2018 21:15:16 GMT
Ah thanks PistolPete and martinrowe - I've obviously tapped into a rich vein of knowledge and experience here. Well I'd been sitting with 3 Marine Band 1896's in keys of C, A and F in my Gear4Music basket but had held off the checkout button as I had this niggling thing going on in my head about nails vs screws in the construction when your excellent post came in, Pete. To be honest, given my experience, ability and the amount I'm likely to play, pretty much anything over and above my current 40p chinese ebay harps would sing. The point about wooden combs now makes sense re the lip shredding. I'll have a look about but would expect to be acquiring some Big Rivers in the near future. I do get Martin's point about minefields - I had no idea that harmonicas needed to be played in, had a limited life, would only bend on certain holes in certain keys, could be played in keys other than the designated one or in different positions - ya peel back the covers on something new and ya never find a neat pile of simplicity do you? One other question, if I may, I have a harmonica rack but really struggle with it moving about when I'm trying to play hands free - is there a secret, or do I just need a lighter touch. Thanks again chaps - really useful responses, much appreciated. Peter |
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Wild Violet
Artist / Performer
Posts: 3,642 
My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Oct 10, 2018 22:24:48 GMT
I played Marine Band for years - they were really the only ones available at the time and Neil Young used them so... I still prefer a rawer (is that a word?) sound of them but the wood now bothers me. I'm not a huge fan of Lee Oskar or Suzuki but have a couple of Seydel Sessions that I really like, £24.99 from Eagle Music.
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Post by martinrowe on Oct 10, 2018 22:33:16 GMT
Glad it all helps Peter and that I've added my two pence worth.
Harmonica Racks? - dunno, never used one.
One would help sometimes but I've not gone there - yet.
Martin
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Post by PistolPete on Oct 11, 2018 9:42:40 GMT
Ah thanks PistolPete and martinrowe - I've obviously tapped into a rich vein of knowledge and experience here. Well I'd been sitting with 3 Marine Band 1896's in keys of C, A and F in my Gear4Music basket but had held off the checkout button as I had this niggling thing going on in my head about nails vs screws in the construction when your excellent post came in, Pete. To be honest, given my experience, ability and the amount I'm likely to play, pretty much anything over and above my current 40p chinese ebay harps would sing. The point about wooden combs now makes sense re the lip shredding. I'll have a look about but would expect to be acquiring some Big Rivers in the near future. I do get Martin's point about minefields - I had no idea that harmonicas needed to be played in, had a limited life, would only bend on certain holes in certain keys, could be played in keys other than the designated one or in different positions - ya peel back the covers on something new and ya never find a neat pile of simplicity do you? One other question, if I may, I have a harmonica rack but really struggle with it moving about when I'm trying to play hands free - is there a secret, or do I just need a lighter touch. Thanks again chaps - really useful responses, much appreciated. Peter If you're buying three it might be worth getting three different kinds to see what you get on with? Most players are fairly promiscuous until they settle on something they like. I even know some fully fledged professionals who will seek out different models for different keys, according to where they think the strength of a particular range lies. I'm probably not the person to ask about racked playing either - I have one, but it has gathered dust for many years, as I struggle to get a good tone from a harp attached to it. All I can offer is that, some of them are better than others, and the bigger weightier ones will move around less. The best solution I ever saw was a friend who had a vacuum cleaner nozzle attached to a mic stand with a harmonica in one end & a microphone in the other. He got a proper bluesy sound from it. |
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Post by bleatoid on Oct 11, 2018 22:30:50 GMT
"...a vacuum cleaner nozzle attached to a mic stand with a harmonica in one end...." this may be a step too far so early in my harmonica career PistolPete and I must confess I'd worry about the noise of the hoover and the safety of my lips but thanks for the suggestion... Thanks for chipping in Wild Violet - blending your views with suggestions from PP and martinrowe, plus youtube reviews I've looked at, plan "D" seems to be a small assorted mix to find my feet (and develop some technique!) and Hohner Big River and Seydel Sessions seem like a good place to start. Thanks again folks - appreciate your time and insights. (You know, it seems odd, somehow, high end harmonicas originating in Germany. Susaphones and lederhosen I get, but harmonicas seem somehow un-Germanic?) Peter |
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Wild Violet
Artist / Performer
Posts: 3,642
My main instrument is: Symonds OM-14
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Post by Wild Violet on Oct 12, 2018 13:24:23 GMT
I have a K&K rack and one that Dave White saved from his daughter’s bin, they both work quite well. There is a knack to it, when I was young I walked around the house with the rack on and played and played until I got it. I can’t play without a rack though.  |
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Jo whoever he is.
