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Post by evan47 on Nov 2, 2018 18:48:50 GMT
Has anyone tried changing their plastic bridge pins for ones made of other materials such as bone, brass, rosewood or ebony?
Is there any difference in tone?
It seems like a cheap and easy thing to do just wondering if it is worth it?
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Post by nkforster on Nov 2, 2018 21:52:43 GMT
The main difference is you may well make your guitar quieter as plastic is the lightest of all the materials you mention. Now, if you're into modal tuning of soundboards, and your guitar has a strong wolf note, you may want to use heavier pins tp shift a top resonance. So there are times when it may be beneficial - you will only find out by experimenting. But I'm afraid all this "brass adds sustain" talk is piffle. It doesn't. Brass adds mass. And that usually isn't a good thing. The main thing using bone/ebony/brass does is add to the notion of luxury. People are amazingly good at convincing themselves that adding some fancy bridge pins has turned a pig's ear into a silk purse. If only it were that simple. Give it a try, there is only one way to find out. Nigel www.nkforsterguitars.com |
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Post by bleatoid on Nov 2, 2018 23:55:30 GMT
I'll post my experience in a few weeks when I restring my Martin using the ebony bridge pins I was lucky enough to win from andrewjw in last week's Friday Giveaway!  Peter |
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 3, 2018 8:12:24 GMT
All sorts of things alter tone, but whether it is discernible is another matter.
It certainly seems that there can be some tonal effects from changing pins, largely down to their differing mass.
But then, especially if your strings are past their first flush of brightness, merely detuning them to slack (as you would to change pins) and retightening them to pitch right away will often produce a noticeable tonal change. Try it.
Keith
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Post by bleatoid on Nov 3, 2018 9:07:24 GMT
All sorts of things alter tone, but whether it is discernible is another matter. It certainly seems that there can be some tonal effects from changing pins, largely down to their differing mass. But then, especially if your strings are past their first flush of brightness, merely detuning them to slack (as you would to change pins) and retightening them to pitch right away will often produce a noticeable tonal change. Try it. Keith I certainly will try it Keith - but why does it work? peter |
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Post by ocarolan on Nov 3, 2018 9:29:40 GMT
All sorts of things alter tone, but whether it is discernible is another matter. It certainly seems that there can be some tonal effects from changing pins, largely down to their differing mass. But then, especially if your strings are past their first flush of brightness, merely detuning them to slack (as you would to change pins) and retightening them to pitch right away will often produce a noticeable tonal change. Try it. Keith I certainly will try it Keith - but why does it work? peter Dunno Peter. Maybe it's because the loosening and tightening dislodges some of the bits of micro-muck from the windngs? Possibly just a reflection of how fickle our sound memory is! Or maybe just because I've convinced myself that it is so!!! Keith |
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Post by linn on Nov 6, 2018 18:02:37 GMT
I'm going to stick my neck out a bit here.
In my small repair business I've changed quite a few Martin (and other brand) guitars from straight pin holes with tapered slotted plastic pins to unslotted wooden pins (mostly RW), slotting the bridges, ramping the slots when required and making properly fitting tapered pin holes to suit.
I'm not one for hype, but I do find that this results in an improvement not only in longevity of the pins and bridges/bridge plates, but also in the sound of the guitars.
And several customers have remarked on it, despite me not "touting" an improvement in sound production at all.
Difficult to define exactly what the difference is, but the response just seems a bit crisper, more immediate/livelier, perhaps from having the ball ends firmly seated under the bridge plate, not bearing on the pins.
Having the string ball ends bearing against 2 plastic knife edges (of the slotted pin) is probably not the best way to transfer energy.
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Post by linn on Nov 7, 2018 0:16:08 GMT
I never really thought energy would transfer directly to the ball ends, I wonder how it might. With at least 10mm of the string end being clamped I would have thought most energy had been damped. You method slightly increases the break angle. When you do this do you also check the fit on the saddle? Perhaps you are making s much cleaner edge for the string to sit on. And where, or in what way, is 10mm of the string clamped? Imagine a string parting at the ball end, what's going to happen? Break angle does slightly increase, and I also curve, or slightly radius, the ramp into the slot in the bridge. Often during a setup I am dealing with a lowered saddle, so I am looking to maintain a reasonable break angle without shaving the bridge. I look to have the string supported over a curve at the top of the saddle, peaking towards the front edge if that's what you mean by the fit. Before I get some flack about the "energy" thing, I'm not implying that the ball end transfers the string's energy to the soundboard. But on the other hand, I haven't seen, or expect, a rush to make bridge plates from plastic in high end guitars. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 7:48:01 GMT
Love my beautiful Pinz but they didn’t sound much different from the wood ones before, so it’s purely aesthetics here.
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Post by linn on Nov 8, 2018 11:16:53 GMT
Break angle is of some importance, it needs to be enough to ensure the string doesn't buzz on the saddle, and that the saddle is in firm contact with the bottom of the saddle slot.
And for guitars using an under saddle pickup it needs to be enough to ensure effective transfer of the string's kinetic energy to that pickup.
I've had a few guitars in with complaints about low pickup volume on the higher strings which turned out to be simply a nearly non-existent break angle.
But there's no need for it to be excessive. I like around 10-15 degrees as a rule of thumb myself.
Alan Carruth has commented on this, on other forums at least.
Good luck with your plastic bridge experiments, let us know how that goes.
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Post by Phil Taylor on Nov 8, 2018 12:00:57 GMT
Plastic bridge  Phil |
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Post by linn on Nov 8, 2018 12:51:17 GMT
Plastic bridge Phil Yeah, maybe someone could try talking to Gibson about them.... |
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Post by linn on Nov 9, 2018 10:50:10 GMT
It would be interesting to see what effect different bridge materials had on tone. Given that the vast majority of the string energy passes through the saddle vertically a dense plastic bridge might help the transfer to the top Then talldad said  ?? |
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Jo whoever he is.
