ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Oct 7, 2016 13:01:21 GMT
I know I have the words on a piece of paper...somewhere! Probably pinned to an old music stand Perhaps I also need a piece of paper to remind me where I left my music stand..... Keith
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 7, 2016 13:11:35 GMT
Oh Dear. I hadn't realised that I was one of the prime causes of the demise of Folk Clubs. Looks like I better just stay at home and play to the dog..... Or only venture out when there are proper people playing who are younger than me, don't suffer from memory loss and haven't become crappy old residents. Must re-check those air fares to Austria.... Of course there are exceptions :-) SaveSave
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 7, 2016 13:12:57 GMT
Singarounds/song circles and sessions are completely different to folk clubs, though we have plenty of them as well. There was a time when I was the youngest person attending both, but over the last few years there has been new, younger blood walking through the doors. The main guests are getting younger, too. The older folks still outnumber the young ones probably 15:1, but it gives me hope that the folk clubs around here will not die out anytime soon. Sounds healthy. There are young people playing near me as well but mostly they do covers. There are some fine, fine, young songwriters in my part of the world but you have to be intrepid to track them down! SaveSave
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Oct 7, 2016 13:18:32 GMT
I like a good old ding-dong debate, without the fear that it will descend into anything less than a passionate discussion. Cracking topic, Paul
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Oct 7, 2016 13:42:13 GMT
Oh Dear. I hadn't realised that I was one of the prime causes of the demise of Folk Clubs. Looks like I better just stay at home and play to the dog..... Or only venture out when there are proper people playing who are younger than me, don't suffer from memory loss and haven't become crappy old residents. Must re-check those air fares to Austria.... I'm pretty sure Dignitas is in Switzerland, FFJ ... more proof that you need to go there
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Post by fatfingerjohn on Oct 7, 2016 14:10:20 GMT
Oh Dear. I hadn't realised that I was one of the prime causes of the demise of Folk Clubs. Looks like I better just stay at home and play to the dog..... Or only venture out when there are proper people playing who are younger than me, don't suffer from memory loss and haven't become crappy old residents. Must re-check those air fares to Austria.... I'm pretty sure Dignitas is in Switzerland, FFJ ... more proof that you need to go there Exactly!
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Post by dreadnought28 on Oct 7, 2016 14:31:05 GMT
Singarounds/song circles and sessions are completely different to folk clubs, though we have plenty of them as well. There was a time when I was the youngest person attending both, but over the last few years there has been new, younger blood walking through the doors. The main guests are getting younger, too. The older folks still outnumber the young ones probably 15:1, but it gives me hope that the folk clubs around here will not die out anytime soon. Sounds healthy. There are young people playing near me as well but mostly they do covers. There are some fine, fine, young songwriters in my part of the world but you have to be intrepid to track them down! SaveSaveAh yes.......covers, that word again. Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra only did covers. Eva Cassidy, The Everly's (mostly) etc etc. Back in the olden days when clubs were full and I were nobut a lad, nearly everybody did covers, Young Tradition, Clancy's, Dylan, Paxton, McTell, Simon etc. The audience outnumbered the performers by more than ten to one........
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Post by ourmaninthenorth on Oct 7, 2016 14:37:16 GMT
Probably pinned to an old music stand Perhaps I also need a piece of paper to remind me where I left my music stand..... Keith That's where I miss smoking so much...the FiloFax fag packet system (Pat Pending) of recording the important stuff. My life has been recorded on the back of empty Embassy packets...
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Oct 7, 2016 14:38:16 GMT
And you just did a cover of your previous post to prove the point Chris And then it mysteriously became an original
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davewhite
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Post by davewhite on Oct 7, 2016 14:44:57 GMT
My life has been recorded on the back of empty Embassy packets... Whereas judging by leoroberts second Circle of Death song at Halifax his life has been recorded on the backs of another sort of empty packet Even with his music stands I'd go and see an evening of Leo performing at a Folk Club every time
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Oct 7, 2016 14:52:19 GMT
Even with his music stands I'd go and see an evening of Leo performing at a Folk Club every time Me too!
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Post by andyhowell on Oct 7, 2016 14:59:34 GMT
Ah yes.......covers, that word again. Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra only did covers. Eva Cassidy, The Everly's (mostly) etc etc. Back in the olden days when clubs were full and I were nobut a lad, nearly everybody did covers, Young Tradition, Clancy's, Dylan, Paxton, McTell, Simon etc. The audience outnumbered the performers by more than ten to one........ I ons't have a problem with covers per se, just with only 5 songs ever been covered. I was commenting on songwriters! I know plenty of places where the audience is happy with some Oasis cover or Dirty Old Town but where they seem strangely ambivalent about young people with real talent trying to do something original! Young performers need encouragement and an audience that gives them time. Clearly things are more healthy in some parts of the country than in others! SaveSave
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Wild Violet
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Post by Wild Violet on Oct 7, 2016 15:23:04 GMT
I have seen what Andy is talking about, though more at open mics than folk clubs. There are a lot of mighty fine young songwriters out there who are often dismissed by older people seemingly based on little more than their age. I hear a lot of "Songs today aren't like they used to be, not like proper music. You can't even understand the lyrics! Now in my day....." You can be sure their parents said the exact same things about their music when they were young...
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Oct 7, 2016 15:23:17 GMT
Ha! Bless you and thankee kindly, Dave and Lynn. This is the issue, isn't it, though? I can do hour after hour of Ralph McTell, James Taylor, Allan Taylor, Gordon Lightfoot et al without the need for words - probably because I have played the songs hundreds of times because they are classics. So, cover versions: no problem. As shown at about 03:00 in Halifax where Keith (another occasional lyric user) and I did a JT song off the cuff. My self-penned songs are mostly just to try and raise a laugh at a particular moment in time (usually Halifax or in The Plucky Duck) - and I'll only play them once or twice at most. They tend to be topical - which, by definition, means they aren't relevant for very long and so I don't bother putting the hours in when it comes to learning words. Indeed 'putting the hours in' would probably mean the song was out of date before I ever sang it! I admire thems as can perform their own songs without words somewhere nearby, but I can't be the only one who has been to a concert by a 'big name professional' who, with loads of albums to his name, has forgotten the words to one of his own songs. Funnily, it's usually the first line to a verse - because that normally provides the cue for the rest of the verse. Watching the Steve Knightley song writing challenge videos it was quite clear that he had the words just off camera in the first 2 or 3 days. I've no doubt that, when he comes to perform them he doesn't need the lyrics. Of course, if I was Steve Knightley I could just listen to all them Show of Hands CDs to help me memorise the lyrics So, an interesting debate - but not one that bothers me too much as to whether my use of a stand affects other people's opinions of me or detracts from my 'performances'. I am what I am and know my limitations and can't be arsed apologising for them - it would take too long! And, if I've paid £20 to watch someone perform their own material, I'd rather they performed it well without forgetting the words. If I've paid sod all, or put a pound in a pot, to watch a nervous amateur then I just want them to do their best and, if that means having a crutch, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. As I am neither.... I think this is the longest post wot I have ever writed....
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walkingdecay
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Post by walkingdecay on Oct 7, 2016 16:09:31 GMT
My local club has made an attempt to bring income bigger and younger names and occasionally they get a big influx of young people. But I don't think that format works any more. The top folk club acts are not cheap to go and see. I can go and see many of the same people at places without raffles and crappy old residents. Keith makes a very good point about the way clubs used to encourage and foster new talent. There are still some places around like that. Near me the Open Mic is a biota a mixed blessing. There are some people that put time into it and it works well — they focus on people doing longer spots who they know are OK. They maybe mix this with shorter spots earlier on for newbies. However, the others! There is a growing line of people running Open Mics for money near me. Some guy with a PA getting paid by a pub to bring people in and doing three or four pubs a week. I have nothing in principle against this but I'd be happier if they really put some time and thought into it. I occasionally play at one of these where I will often have 30 minutes or so. But I have to sit through the old bastards with music stands (they are usually old), people playing keyboards with synthetic drums and singing Goodness knows what) and too many other horrible things to even share. We do need people to think about the format and put some love into it. And some thought. Do we need all these PAs? Apart from the occasional sessions I organise, I can think of only one place near me that has it right. This is a Little Theatre that runs a session in the bar. There is amplification but only background stuff that lifts things a little. The mics are ambient and can hardly be noticed. There is a mix of thos playing for the first time and old lags;there are young and old. Trouble is this only runs 3 times a year! I'm with Chris. Ban the damn music stands. Oh Dear. I hadn't realised that I was one of the prime causes of the demise of Folk Clubs. Looks like I better just stay at home and play to the dog..... Or only venture out when there are proper people playing who are younger than me, don't suffer from memory loss and haven't become crappy old residents. Must re-check those air fares to Austria.... I sympathise. I understand the use of music stands as folk music in particular can involve feats of memory, and a dropped verse can break the narrative. My late partner would tape crib sheets of first lines and full verses of songs (including my own over-long efforts) to the top of her guitar to jog her memory. I'd even be happy to see someone playing from notation at a session. There's nothing unprofessional about playing from charts: that's what I spent much of my time doing when I was a full-time pro and always do on the occasional agency gigs I do now.
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