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Post by michaelwatts on Feb 18, 2014 13:20:24 GMT
Hello all, I did announce this on the AGF too so apologies for the cross post... I just wanted to invite you to have a look at the new TNAG website which is now live! thenorthamericanguitar.com/I hope you enjoy it! All the best and please don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions MW
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Post by redpick on Feb 18, 2014 17:57:06 GMT
Hey guys, this is a little bit of a tricky one and hope you don't mind if I bring it out into the open, at the risk of ostrizising myself.... Firstly, let me say I am a great admirer of Michael Watts and his playing ability. Secondly, I may well do business (if they'll let me after this), with tNAG at some future point. Thirdly, I know that MW meets and plays with a few of the people that contribute regularly here. Fourthly, (is that a word?), tNAG and TAMCO are fairly unique in what they provide to the UK acoustic community. And I admit I am on both their mailing lists because of that USP.
But, we don't have advertising on this website, and
Michael Watts is posting as Michael Watts, not tNAG.... soooo, is it right to promote your company in a post like this? Only asking, because I think it should be made clear. I've lit the blue touchpaper and I'm standing well back( incidentally, 29 views and no comment before I read this. PS I apologise for misspelling the ostrich word above, and now I'll hide my head! Seriously though, I think guidance is required.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 18, 2014 18:27:29 GMT
Understand your point and your potential concern redpick, and yes, it is a tricky one. I'm unsure from your post whether you are asking for guidance yourself as to what constitutes advertising, or whether you are wondering if a blanket policy should be made clear to all persons with any business interest. (And, as an aside - you mention TAMCO, Trevor is also a member here ( Trevor TAMCO TAMCO ).) Some personal thoughts - We are fortunate to have quite a number of Forum members who are in the trade in one way or another, or who are professional performers or instrument makers... Most of them at some point do make reference to their websites/services/products/music. Some do so in every post as their signature. Many of these people have benefitted the Forum in many ways - offering instruments to "Road Trip", or specific discounts from time to time, or gig notifications etc etc. The acoustic guitar community in UK is relatively small, and it would be surprising if people did not make genuine friendships outside the Forum - indeed that is something we encourage. Networking is a part of life - personal and business. I agree that there is a fine line here, but so far, IMHO, no-one concerned has yet overstepped the mark into blatant advertising of their wares, nor am I aware of any abuse of friendships for personal gain. I have no problem with people bringing their websites to our notice, provided that it doesn't become the only reason for their presence here. Be assured it is a situation that is constantly monitored, and any staff member would always be open to receiving PMs if any member felt abuse was taking place - my feeling is that this would be a good way to proceed rather than public discussion over a specific individual which may veer in unwanted directions and cause unintentional upset. If I think of any other pearls I'll add them! Keith
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Post by redpick on Feb 18, 2014 19:24:19 GMT
Thanks for the reply. I must make it clear : I am simply seeking clarity on this matter. I do NOT want to upset anyone. I am not flaming or whatever term is appropriate. I want your views as moderator. I think my response to the above is valid given this site's stance on advertising. I IMHO do think that the above is blatant advertising as there is no other point being made. I prefer the discussion to be an open one, this is a forum. I am simply questioning the validity of such a post- you say it is valid, that is fine by me, they are not my rules. I have nothing against tNAG nor the rules, in fact I made my living in advertising and I would welcome guitar-related advertising here, although I have no product or service to promote. I'm not even going to go there as far as friendships and networking is concerned, it is beyond question and none of my business. I really am trying to come from the right place although it may seem otherwise to some.
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Post by michaelwatts on Feb 18, 2014 19:33:18 GMT
Well, I understand that every forum is different and the last thing anyone wants is for members to get upset. I consider this a friendly place for the acoustically minded to hang out and share information. When I made a more "mercantile" post just before Christmas I contacted Martin and Keith in advance to ask approval.
If I have contravened any forum rules then I apologise, it was never my intention.
All the best
MW
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Post by jonnymosco on Feb 18, 2014 19:42:26 GMT
I'd see it as public information, not advertising!
Jonny
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Post by Martin on Feb 18, 2014 19:48:58 GMT
While I have no problem personally with a forum member here making us aware of their website via a forum post, I can certainly see where you are coming from in this instance redpick. All I can say is that there are no 'rules' as such against advertising, all that we can guarantee is that no one on this forum makes any money from any form of advertising. Indeed, several of us contribute personally to ensure this place stays free of the stuff. What I see above is a post, which while it does advertise a business, also provides genuine interest for our membership, and Michael was very careful previously as he said to ask permission to post about a seasonal discount scheme he thought might benefit our members. If posts are made which we believe to be in the general member interest, I for one would not have any objection. It would be a different matter if products or services were being plugged constantly which were of little or no interest. Of course if you or any other member has a concern about anything that has been posted, please let a member of staff know and it will be looked at.
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Post by redpick on Feb 18, 2014 20:23:08 GMT
Thanks for the clarification Martin, most helpful. FWIW I have no objections either to guitar-related product information and I reiterate that I am very interested in tNAG and TAMCO offerings. So that's that cleared up then. No hard feelings Michael.
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Post by pnut on Feb 18, 2014 20:26:57 GMT
I know what redpick means in that it is really advertising, but also agree with Jonny in that for the majority of people on here myself included it will probably be seen as useful information.
In the few years since I've been on the forum I've noticed quite a few posts which could be similarly viewed as "advertising" ranging from musicians telling everyone they've got a new cd out or are playing a gig, through to some shops and luthiers posting what exciting new things they've just made or got in. Personally I don't have an issue with it and think it works and is useful for the following reasons.
This is specialist niche stuff being posted on a specialist forum with people who are generally really interested in it and may not get to hear about it thro other roots. The posts are fairly infrequent, it's not like one of the big high volume mail order companies is making weekly posts of their latest offers, or music stores are hiking the latest overhyped band As far as gigs and CDs are concerned I guess people would like to know what fellow friends and forumites are up to in this department, it's a good way of potentially discovering new music and gigs to see that otherwise you may not find out about.
Years a go I used to be heavily into hifi and music and as such joined a forum on this subject, (pinkfish media), they tackled this issue by having a "trade section" which is a specific section specifically for shops to post details of their latest events or offers sales etc. if we wanted to be squeaky clean over the rules and definition maybe this is an option but don't see it really necessary at the moment. They did go through a period when the owner of a small hifi manufacturing company used to constantly make posts in the general section of the forum extolling how their latest models where light years ahead of the competition and vastly superior etc etc, in the end he was banned. Personally I don't believe we are anywhere near that problem and agree with Keith in that these posts bring more useful Information to the forum than annoying intrusive advertising.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2014 21:18:13 GMT
I've got no problems with it- nice website Michael. After listening to your youtube video I've got serious GAS for that redwood Lowden!
Robbie
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Post by ocarolan on Feb 18, 2014 21:56:06 GMT
.......................... If I have contravened any forum rules then I apologise, it was never my intention. All the best MW As careful reading of my earlier post will convey, I don't believe you have contravened any "rules" Michael, so no need for any apologies and thank you for bringing the new site to our attention. Keith
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Post by leoroberts on Feb 18, 2014 22:50:24 GMT
I'm really glad to see that this issue is being dealt with (by everyone involved) in a sensible and sensitive manner. It says a lot about the folk that frequent this 'ere forum that the issue can be raised, and discussed, so calmly and without rancour. As with others, whilst the Michael is undoubtedly advertising in one sense, the new website is exactly that - new. And therefor worthy of bringing to attention . It's also informative and relevant to me as a forum member. If all we got from Michael and Trevor (and, I suppose, anyone who posts in the build threads and so on) was a plethora of "buy me, visit my store/website" type posts then I think I would definitely have an issue. But we don't. I for one have benefitted greatly from the 'advertising' on the site, leading directly to 3 purchases (Sybil, Betty and, soon, Molly) which would, in all probability, never have happened otherwise (damn you, davewhite and guitbrett!) I would only caution that such posts should come with a health* warning Leo *wallet
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Post by scotch on Feb 19, 2014 8:12:37 GMT
I disapprove. Sitting here drinking my morning coffee. Flicking through pages and having a morning guitar playing session. Then I find this thread and see TNAG website. I'VE BEEN G.A.S FREE FOR 3 MONTHS. God Dammit.
Btw great videos on youtube Michael Watts.
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Post by clydeslide on Feb 19, 2014 10:00:35 GMT
Tell you what Michael, Give me that Wingert and I'll let you off...
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Post by clydeslide on Feb 19, 2014 11:37:56 GMT
The longer you leave this Michael the worse it is going to be for you, I am patiently awaiting confirmation of my new Wingert but those Lame Horse guitars look fantastic, you may have to add one of those into my bribe as well... Is it obvious I'm working from home?
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