delb0y
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Post by delb0y on Mar 7, 2014 13:22:19 GMT
Mark
Here you go - this is my first DADGAD tune. As mentioned above it's really just a series of shapes and scales that I've tied together, but it kind of works I think. Weirdly - because I don't think he played much (if at all) in DADGAD I had John Fahey in mind when putting this together.
Kind regards Derek
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alig
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Post by alig on Mar 7, 2014 13:41:28 GMT
Good stuff!
Nice melodic piece.
Well done.
Alasdair.
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 8, 2014 8:06:25 GMT
Fine work Derek. You've made a great deal of sense of scale and shapes in that recording. Done in a very fluent and fluid style and with a sure melodic touch. I did find with DADGAD that because it's more an "altered" tuning than an pure "open" tuning it required more knowledge of how chords fitted in. I had a gut feeling that was to do with the G and A strings being so close to each other in pitch and that need to be having to fret a note of some sort on the 3rd string nearly all the time. I'm interested to see what approach Martin Simpson takes to DADGAD in his book - haven't reached that yet. Open G (and Open D) as "taught" by Martin Simpson was a bit of a revelation to me. In the past any teachings I have seen on open tuning seem go on and on about all the possible chord shapes. With Martin Simpson he refers briefly to the basic full barre option and the simple IV chord (that 0-2-0-1-0 shape on the top 5 strings in G). His only other reference to chords are the little three string chord shapes on the adjacent major 5th, root, major 3rd strings (strings 4,3, and 2 in Open G). Those triad shapes that are all harmonised to the major scale, linked to the use of other strings that are an octave above or below, and the option of playing the 3rd string as an open G root note, just seem to open up a wealth of very musical possibilities for playing. I can't believe how quickly this approach leads to really musical sounds and progressions. The fact that the three strings are the same as on a standard tuned guitar also means those mini chord shapes are already familiar. I think this approach also avoids the strait-jacket of "standard" chord progressions and sounds - increases the possibilities for musical invention. I don't understand the attraction of just playing standard chords in a pure "open" tuning anyway as so much of the resonance and character of the open tuning is not used - but so much teaching seems to follow that line.
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 8, 2014 10:08:46 GMT
Enjoyed that Derek! Well structured piece - especially liked the changes of tempo/feel - looks like you did too! For my ears, less reverb would be preferable - the sound is of you playing in a large space whereas you obviously aren't. I agree it's a v personal thing though! maybe you intend using the track on a CD, when the visuals don't matter? I find that I tend to need to apply more reverb anyway to get a "natural" sound if my intention is to burn to CD. Don't really understand why though! Keith
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delb0y
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Post by delb0y on Mar 8, 2014 18:06:26 GMT
Thanks guys Mark - the chord element of DADGAD isn't as awkward as other tunings on account of the ADG bit is the same as normal so it's reasonably easy to use 50% of what you already know. That's the theory anyway - this piece was more riff and scale based. I've always tried to make my finger style pieces sound full - usually with plenty of alternate bass going on. Here I thought why not just let a simple melody and the tone of the guitar do all the work rather than me! Ocarolan - I agree re. the reverb. There's no intent to use on this on a CD. I'm pretty simplistic in my recording knowledge. With the G-Track mic there was some free software (Sonar X1) and I used that without having a clue what I was doing. I just choose the "small classical ensemble" reverb setting and left it at that. It sounds very different on different headphones but I'd have no idea how to go about creating a sound that would work well on everything. Kind regards Derek
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 9, 2014 19:52:35 GMT
Mark - the chord element of DADGAD isn't as awkward as other tunings on account of the ADG bit is the same as normal so it's reasonably easy to use 50% of what you already know. That's the theory anyway - this piece was more riff and scale based. I've always tried to make my finger style pieces sound full - usually with plenty of alternate bass going on. Here I thought why not just let a simple melody and the tone of the guitar do all the work rather than me! I think that approach worked very well Derek. Sometimes simple can end up sounding better (just as well for me). The tone of the guitar certainly worked well for you too. ...................................................... The journey in these tunings has stalled a bit the last few days. Just really looked at the open (not altered) tunings so far. I'd done Open D, Open G, and tried to move onto Open C a few days back. There's lots of common factors in those 3 tunings, which should help a lot .... and does, but it does as yet seem very like Open G falls musically under my fingers so much more easily than the others. In essence I have seen:- (reading strings lowest to highest) Open D R-5-R-3-5-R Open G 5-R-5-R-3-5 Open C R-5-R-5-R-3 so the R-5-R on adjacent strings combination is common to them all (gradually moving across the fretboard), as is the 5-R-3 combination. With the 5-R-3 being (when strings played open) the major triad of the root note of the key and with the three note chord shapes of either minor or major running up the fretboard on those three strings for harmonised playing, I've found the 5-R-3 a great base for the harmonies in the music. Unfortunately with Open C that leaves no string above those three 5-R-3 strings for extra melodic notes. With open G I find that the open string of a 5 on the top string lends itself very well to melodic runs, particularly as it's doubled with the 5 on the 4th string. So I know that whatever note I'm playing on the mini chord on the 4th string works at the same fret on the top string. OK - I don't find I'm using the bottom string very much as the 5th string is the Root note of the key but everything else works so well together. With Open D I have the same shapes and patterns as Open G except 1 string down. So lower frequency bass notes come in, but I find the 2nd string is not as good for melody as the higher notes on the 1st string. If I can find a way of getting my head around melodic lines on the 1st and 2nd strings together then Open D could becomes as good as / better than Open G maybe. But at the moment it just seems like I've been able to improv in Open G for a long time and it feels natural. Maybe in a past life I was a guitar tuned to Open G? I did start to have a brief try of Gsus4 but it was all going so badly at that point I had to stop. Good progress so far though - I maybe need to break and do some ordinary stuff for a week or two and recharge the brain. I have celtic songs to keep exploring too. Mark
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Phil Taylor
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Post by Phil Taylor on Mar 11, 2014 10:28:58 GMT
So a weeks gone by since my "First Steps in Open G" soundclip. Been playing around with the Open G a fair bit since then. I'm finding the harmonised major scale shapes on strings 2,3 and 4 very pleasing. Now I'll agree that those shapes exist on those three strings in standard tuning ..... ..... BUT ..... it's so much more difficult in standard tuning to makes sense of what notes will fit in on the other strings. Chord shapes and relationships which vary across the fretboard come into play in standard tuning and confuse my poor old tired brain. In this open tuning those paired up strings makes things simpler - the 5th to go with the third, the 1st (and 6th) to go with the 4th. It certainly makes improv so much more feasible for someone with my limited technical/theoretical knowledge. The fact that it's easier to know which notes fit is great - the extra resonances with the doubled up notes and open string harmonies is pure gravy. I can see the potential for putting some planned pieces together too - if I can be disciplined enough. I really like Martin Simpsons ability to simplify and get to the musical essence. Also the way he gives you a broad and simple set of guidelines and lets you get up and running yourself is great. I've looked at open tunings a fair few times in the past and never found teaching that I could connect with so quickly and effectively. Great players are often bad teachers but I'm reckoning Mr S is a master of both. Most open tunings lessons I've seen in the past seem to concentrate on how to play standard chords in that tuning - which seems to me to mean you lose out on a huge amount of what makes an open tuning different and special. So by way of a progress report here's a soundclip. More melodic lines work than in my effort of a week ago. Bit scrappy in places but I was making it up as I went along, and hadn't had a great nights sleep! First Steps in Open G Part 2Think I'll probably work through these various tunings with a fairly short time on each at first. I can then go back and do more work on the ones that seem most promising. Open C is next and Gsus4 is not far behind that (the bluesy edge from that one intrigues me). Till later .... Mark Just catching up with this thread Mark. I have come up with a few tunes in Open D which I found really good tuning to use. Your playing in open G sounds good and you say you were making it up as you went along? I would work on that and put a bit of structure into it and I am sure there is nice piece of music there I have in the past learnt one or two in open G bit it is definitely on my 'mental to do list' to visit it again. Regards Phil
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Post by Phil Taylor on Mar 11, 2014 10:39:02 GMT
Mark Here you go - this is my first DADGAD tune. As mentioned above it's really just a series of shapes and scales that I've tied together, but it kind of works I think. Weirdly - because I don't think he played much (if at all) in DADGAD I had John Fahey in mind when putting this together. Kind regards Derek Wow!! first tune in DADGAD you say, very impressive It's interesting that when listening to it I would not have guessed it was in DADGAD tuning - good stuff indeed. This was my first tune written in DADGAD, in fact it was my first ever self penned tune: Interesting thread. Cheers Phil
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Mar 11, 2014 11:37:42 GMT
Doesn't matter how many books I buy, recordings I listen to, tabs I follow or virgins I sacrifice I just cannot get the hang of DADGAD ...
So top work there, Derek ... very impressive (and tuneful!)
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delb0y
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Post by delb0y on Mar 11, 2014 13:22:33 GMT
Phil, thanks for the comments. It's interesting you say you wouldn't have guessed it was in DADGAD. My DADGAD learning since doing this tune has been to play in the key of G in DADGAD. I actually did a version of John Prine's Speed of the Sound of Loneliness in G in DADGAD and all the opening strings and 'accidental' 6th and 9th chords really added a new texture to it without (hopefully) being overtly DADGAD. Alas, I inadvertently deleted the recording... I really liked For Keira - a beautiful light touch (something I'm hoping to achieve one day!) and a really nice melody. Lovely sound out of the Brooks, too. Leo, trust me... DADGAD mastery is always just one more sacrificial virgin away... Either that or Doug Young's superb book
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leoroberts
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Post by leoroberts on Mar 11, 2014 14:39:02 GMT
Leo, trust me... DADGAD mastery is always just one more sacrificial virgin away... Either that or Doug Young's superb book Well, I'm from Liverpool and live in Salford - virgins are in short supply... Doug Young's book is one of them that's in my dusty library
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windminstrel
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Post by windminstrel on Mar 11, 2014 15:02:24 GMT
Lovely piece Phil, really enjoyed that. I have the 'Understanding DADGAD' book by Doug Young, and am still slowly trawling through it. I start off with the best intentions and then just end up doing my own improvisations. I really must stick to the agenda in the book, I am sure there is a method in the madness within. I also find that just taking a slow pace playing and discovering different melodies I like will ultimately pay off. Basically, just looking for my own style of DADGAD playing.
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 11, 2014 19:07:48 GMT
Just catching up with this thread Mark. I have come up with a few tunes in Open D which I found really good tuning to use. Your playing in open G sounds good and you say you were making it up as you went along? I would work on that and put a bit of structure into it and I am sure there is nice piece of music there I have in the past learnt one or two in open G bit it is definitely on my 'mental to do list' to visit it again. Regards Phil I think that's good advice Phil. As I feel so at home in Open G it seems a shame to move on until I've explored it some more. As one of my unofficial new years resolutions on guitar is to create structured composed tunes I think I need to try to create something of that sort. Yes - you're right by the way - what I was doing on the recording was just making it up as I went along. The main central structure to it was essentially the three note triads of major and minor chords going up strings 2,3 and 4. But the added notes, runs, phrasing, repeats, and order in which I used those triads was very much "on the hoof". I do really enjoy improv - it does genuinely makes me feel better and I suspect it's to do with being able to focus the mind away from day to day problems and at the same time let the musical flow wash me along in it. That probably sounds incredibly pretentious, but it's a better way of dealing with things than anti-depressants. This was my first tune written in DADGAD, in fact it was my first ever self penned tune: Interesting thread. Cheers Phil That is damned good for a first self penned tune Phil. Just listened to your recent upload at the Plucky Duck and I see similarities in qualities - very effective phrasing and melodic lines in particular. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Apr 7, 2014 19:17:12 GMT
Nearly a month has gone by since my last post ... still exploring the wonderful world of tunings but also getting distracted by octave mandolins, celtic music in general, and really I'm just like a kid in a sweetshop wanting one of everything at the moment. I recently got a book "The Scottish Guitar - 40 Scottish Tunes for Fingerstyle Guitar" by Rob MacKillop. I've been really enjoying it - one of teh very best guitar books I've ever used. I did get it with having it in mind that it had DADGAD tunes in it. However it also has Open G and Open D. Half of the tunes arrangements in the book are in open D - from 17th century Scottish lute repertoire - and I've found myself drawn to having fun on those. I've also been having fun with this book due to Rob MacKillops view of interpretation. He doesn't believe in showing ornamentation on the transcriptions but instead gives guidance on types of ornamentation and leaves the player to use when they feel moved to. Also on a lot of the pieces he recommends that the player can let themselves be quite free with the rhythm as long as the rhythm breathes - avoiding the metronomic sort of rhythm. I spent a long time under the whip of learning music that had to be played EXACTLY as per the printed page and eventually hating it, so this approach of Rob MacKillops ticks all the right boxes with me. I've been working on one particular tune for a week or so - it sounds nothing like as good as his version on the CD - I'm quite a bit faster, and probably to near to a metronomic rhythm. But at least now when I listen to his recording and read the book at the same time I can make sense of what he's doing - which I couldn't do when I first tried it. It was an untitled piece - he called it Rhonas Tune, and so have I because it is essentially his tune I'm trying to play. Rhonas Tune (arr MacKillop)I think I will need to keep working on this for a long time. It needs to be much more fluid and mellow and needs to sing better. Mark
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alig
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Post by alig on Apr 7, 2014 19:33:24 GMT
Nearly a month has gone by since my last post ... still exploring the wonderful world of tunings but also getting distracted by octave mandolins, celtic music in general, and really I'm just like a kid in a sweetshop wanting one of everything at the moment. I recently got a book "The Scottish Guitar - 40 Scottish Tunes for Fingerstyle Guitar" by Rob MacKillop. I've been really enjoying it - one of teh very best guitar books I've ever used. I did get it with having it in mind that it had DADGAD tunes in it. However it also has Open G and Open D. Half of the tunes arrangements in the book are in open D - from 17th century Scottish lute repertoire - and I've found myself drawn to having fun on those. I've also been having fun with this book due to Rob MacKillops view of interpretation. He doesn't believe in showing ornamentation on the transcriptions but instead gives guidance on types of ornamentation and leaves the player to use when they feel moved to. Also on a lot of the pieces he recommends that the player can let themselves be quite free with the rhythm as long as the rhythm breathes - avoiding the metronomic sort of rhythm. I spent a long time under the whip of learning music that had to be played EXACTLY as per the printed page and eventually hating it, so this approach of Rob MacKillops ticks all the right boxes with me. I've been working on one particular tune for a week or so - it sounds nothing like as good as his version on the CD - I'm quite a bit faster, and probably to near to a metronomic rhythm. But at least now when I listen to his recording and read the book at the same time I can make sense of what he's doing - which I couldn't do when I first tried it. It was an untitled piece - he called it Rhonas Tune, and so have I because it is essentially his tune I'm trying to play. Rhonas Tune (arr MacKillop)I think I will need to keep working on this for a long time. It needs to be much more fluid and mellow and needs to sing better. Mark Yup. Good book, init. Alasdair.
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