brianr2
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My main instrument is: Brook Lyn guitar
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Post by brianr2 on Apr 8, 2014 8:23:22 GMT
Nearly a month has gone by since my last post ... still exploring the wonderful world of tunings but also getting distracted by octave mandolins, celtic music in general, and really I'm just like a kid in a sweetshop wanting one of everything at the moment. I recently got a book "The Scottish Guitar - 40 Scottish Tunes for Fingerstyle Guitar" by Rob MacKillop. I've been really enjoying it - one of teh very best guitar books I've ever used. I did get it with having it in mind that it had DADGAD tunes in it. However it also has Open G and Open D. Half of the tunes arrangements in the book are in open D - from 17th century Scottish lute repertoire - and I've found myself drawn to having fun on those. I've also been having fun with this book due to Rob MacKillops view of interpretation. He doesn't believe in showing ornamentation on the transcriptions but instead gives guidance on types of ornamentation and leaves the player to use when they feel moved to. Also on a lot of the pieces he recommends that the player can let themselves be quite free with the rhythm as long as the rhythm breathes - avoiding the metronomic sort of rhythm. I spent a long time under the whip of learning music that had to be played EXACTLY as per the printed page and eventually hating it, so this approach of Rob MacKillops ticks all the right boxes with me. I've been working on one particular tune for a week or so - it sounds nothing like as good as his version on the CD - I'm quite a bit faster, and probably to near to a metronomic rhythm. But at least now when I listen to his recording and read the book at the same time I can make sense of what he's doing - which I couldn't do when I first tried it. It was an untitled piece - he called it Rhonas Tune, and so have I because it is essentially his tune I'm trying to play. Rhonas Tune (arr MacKillop)I think I will need to keep working on this for a long time. It needs to be much more fluid and mellow and needs to sing better. Mark Love the book and this tune. Like you, I greatly enjoy Rob McKillop's attitude to tempo and ornamentation. There are so many great tunes in his book that I always find something fresh and inspiring whenever I open it. And every time I play one of his arrangements, I find something more in it. Brian
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Post by andyhowell on Apr 30, 2014 8:03:52 GMT
I've also been having fun with this book due to Rob MacKillops view of interpretation. He doesn't believe in showing ornamentation on the transcriptions but instead gives guidance on types of ornamentation and leaves the player to use when they feel moved to. Also on a lot of the pieces he recommends that the player can let themselves be quite free with the rhythm as long as the rhythm breathes - avoiding the metronomic sort of rhythm. I spent a long time under the whip of learning music that had to be played EXACTLY as per the printed page and eventually hating it, so this approach of Rob MacKillops ticks all the right boxes with me. Love the book and this tune. Like you, I greatly enjoy Rob McKillop's attitude to tempo and ornamentation. There are so many great tunes in his book that I always find something fresh and inspiring whenever I open it. And every time I play one of his arrangements, I find something more in it. Brian I think this is the best approach to transcription and tabs. Following a basic line allows you to pick a tune in the most fluid and natural way — add the frilly bits as you develop your understanding of the tune.
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 21, 2014 17:57:34 GMT
Yup. Good book, init. Alasdair. I always seem to find something of interest whenever I look at it. Love the book and this tune. Like you, I greatly enjoy Rob McKillop's attitude to tempo and ornamentation. There are so many great tunes in his book that I always find something fresh and inspiring whenever I open it. And every time I play one of his arrangements, I find something more in it. Brian I keep thinking I ought to get the other book of his where he goes more into detail about the techniques of ornamentation for this sort of music. I also look forward to maybe getting good enough that I can add ornamentation that adds a lot to the music, rather than it mainly being a few extra notes. Love the book and this tune. Like you, I greatly enjoy Rob McKillop's attitude to tempo and ornamentation. There are so many great tunes in his book that I always find something fresh and inspiring whenever I open it. And every time I play one of his arrangements, I find something more in it. Brian I think this is the best approach to transcription and tabs. Following a basic line allows you to pick a tune in the most fluid and natural way — add the frilly bits as you develop your understanding of the tune. Fluid and natural is key I'll agree Andy ... and it's a tricky sod to bring those qualities into the playing. Still, a good load of practice helps things move in the right direction. ..................................... Sorry I totally forgot about responding to your replies or missed spotting them! ..................................... ..................................... In the meantime I've been distracted by the Butterfly and Travelling guitar Projects. But I've still been playing some of the pieces in the Rob MacKillop book - and as both Keith and Marks projects that I'm working on are in DADGAD I've been exploring some of the DADGAD pieces in Rob MacKillops book. A couple in progress currently - no ornamentation added as yet - still trying to get a decent flow and phrasing ... and hit the right notes! Oran A Mhaghdean Mhara - Early Stage Tighean Geala Sildeag - Early StageI do have the feeling that a fair number of the tunes in the book would work well with guitar and added mandolin family members joining in. If I could be prepared to take the time to have a go at an arrangement. Maybe put that next on the list for this project. Mark
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jun 21, 2014 22:59:21 GMT
A couple of good tunes there, Mark - well worth persevering with, you've made a great start. Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Jun 26, 2014 19:48:03 GMT
Thank you Keith - glad for the encouraging words. I hear my attempts, and then hear Rob MacKillops recordings afterwards and can be left wondering am I getting anywhere at all and am I playing the same tune! Funny how the Mandolin family coming in can change the character of a tune. That same guitar recording of "Oran Mhanghdean Mhara" with Octave Mandolin and Mandolin added, in a terribly simple arrangement. Oran Mhanghdean Mhara - with Octave Mandolin & MandolinWell ... its character sounds rather different to me. Mark
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 9, 2014 22:32:15 GMT
Over a month since I paid attention to this thread, and to be honest about that much time since I looked at anything different on tunings. Started playing around with Gsus4 tuning this weekend on the TW73 Parlour. DGDGCD. Which does put a touch of a different spin on things. After trying out some random noodling and briefly studying a tabbed piece in the key I found a phrase or two growing into being. So I had a go at a short composition. Mercifully short and it means it's only 1:08 of your life wasted in listening, plus a little time for the wav file to load on box.com. The Suspense is Killing MeI can only apologise for the pun in the tracks name. I really ought to read the notes that Martin Simpson has on using this tuning now, in case I'm misunderstanding any things so far. Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 9, 2014 22:55:06 GMT
That's well worth developing into a longer piece, Mark. Again, this one has a classicalish feel to it that I like and which works well on that guitar, maybe Elizabethan dance type thing. Whatever, very nice indeed. Best of all, to my way of thinking, is that it doesn't sound like it's been done in an altered tuning - the music is what is heard, not the tuning, if you see what I mean.
Keith
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brianr2
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My main instrument is: Brook Lyn guitar
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Post by brianr2 on Aug 10, 2014 7:37:14 GMT
Very good stuff. As Keith says, somewhat Elizabethan in feel. Has an air (no pun intended) of some of the pieces in THIS BOOK by Keith Hinchliffe, which is another favourite of mine. Brian
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 10, 2014 12:52:44 GMT
That's well worth developing into a longer piece, Mark. Again, this one has a classicalish feel to it that I like and which works well on that guitar, maybe Elizabethan dance type thing. Whatever, very nice indeed. Best of all, to my way of thinking, is that it doesn't sound like it's been done in an altered tuning - the music is what is heard, not the tuning, if you see what I mean. Keith Thanks Keith - you're right about classicalish and about Elizabethan. I might have put it down to the tuning and the way the chords fall, but it's not the first time this has happened with my attempts at composition and previous times were different tunings. Parlour size, plus the cedar top, does give the TW73 leanings towards a classical guitar sound I suppose. Maybe I should try noodling around on the TW45 and see if it produces a different sort of style. I used to enjoy the sound of the Elizabethan pieces when I (tried to) play classical guitar. But I often found the requirements for fretting hand fingers were rather nasty. Maybe the tuning in these various open G types make the "Elizabethan" type of chords easy to find and easier to handle. I took the opportunity this morning to try to add a few variations to the piece. Though it is still quite short at just under 2 minutes. The Suspense is Killing Me - 2nd part addedSo there's theme A played twice (with change of right hand position for different tone *). [as before] Then there's a B section played once. [as before] Then a variation on the A section played twice, again with the two hand positions, then a C section with a vague resemblance to the B, and then finally to close with one play of the first A section. [as before] *-the effect of a contrast with this would be better using the decent condenser microphone straight into the DAW rather than doing these draft "sketches" on the portable Yamaha Pocketrak Recorder.Mark Very good stuff. As Keith says, somewhat Elizabethan in feel. Has an air (no pun intended) of some of the pieces in THIS BOOK by Keith Hinchliffe, which is another favourite of mine. Brian Thanks Brian - and that looks an interesting link (which 'll look at properly later), so thank you for that too. Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Aug 10, 2014 14:11:01 GMT
... really developing nicely is that, Mark - love the extended version. Keith
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 10, 2014 19:00:53 GMT
Cheers Keith. This composition malarkey is fun and baffling in about equal measures, and the time just flies by. I think some of the "Elizabethan effect using the TW73 Parlour IS from the sound / timbre of the guitar itself and with how that sound will also guide me to be playing it in a certain way. Here's the TW45 on a recording this evening - essentially the same notes - with some different accidentals where the guitar sound suggested it. I do feel this version is only hinting at the "Elizabethan" compared to the TW73 recording. I didn't deliberately choose to play it like this - just going by the way the guitar sounded. The Suspense is Really Killing MeIt's not the tempo that makes the difference - 01:44 v 01:48 is not exactly a major change. All fun ... and a good distraction from worrying about the fun and joys tomorrows working day will bring. Mark
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Post by andyhowell on Aug 10, 2014 21:46:04 GMT
You are obviously enjoying yourself! Good stuff.
As for that G SUS 4 tuning try it with bottom d down to c!
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Post by vikingblues on Aug 14, 2014 19:24:16 GMT
I AM enjoying this. I appreciate your encouraging words Andy. ... and more than the lateness of my reply might suggest. I must have a try of that bottom d down to c - interesting idea. With it matching the 2nd string I can see that would have possibilities in the improv scenario too. I have been having a few general noodling sessions in this tuning too. Found myself edging towards something vaguely bluesy with it too. I pretty well left the blues behind at the same time as I switched from electric guitars back near the end of last year. There just seems so many other rich veins of interesting musical styles to cover on an acoustic. Anyhoo - this noodling around a bluesy base sounds to my uneducated ears to give a sort of modal edge of some sort to that bluesy I-IV-V scenario. Very basic stuff, but teh Gsus4 seems to make it sound different to the standard tuning progression I'd use. I've been trying to work out why the difference - the basic shape for the I IV and V is using the middle 4 strings at 0-0-0-2, 5-5-5-7, and 7-7-7-9. So just the tonic and dominant / 5th note of scale. So no hint from that as to major / minor. I was mainly using the 2nd string for accidentals and melodic runs. Frets 0,2,3,5,7,9,10,12. G Aeolian it seems - C,D,Eb,F,G,A,Bb,C. When playing the root G chord I was using the Eb (2nd string, 3rd fret) a lot and the Bb (3rd string, 3rd fret) too. I think both these are minor and would be a fret higher if major scale - so that would give a feel of a sort. I've always leant towards minor scale so I'm not surprised I've been drawn to playing these notes when I'm exploring a new tuning and don't know what notes are where. Don't know why I feel the need to try to work out what I'm doing - should maybe just get on with it. I can't help but feel there's maybe some possibilities to explore in composition using this as a base. Though it'll need to be rather less heavy handed. If I could (a) find the time, (b) find the focus and (c) shift the headache I've had since last Friday (sinuses I think) Gsus4 Bluesy TrialMark
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Post by andyhowell on Aug 15, 2014 7:28:21 GMT
Mark
G SUS 4 can be a bit difficult to get your head around. Bass to D and you wil naturally find yourself getting into things like Both Sides Now as well as the blues. Drop to C and it gets weird, Noodle around off the bass on the 5th fret and you can get a disconcerting but very interesting effect !!!
With bass at C and capo Ii you'll find a run in dropped D G shape , from 7 to 5 to open gives you Jackson C Frank's Blues Run the Game.
Who ever needed those horrible bar chords anyway :-)
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Post by vikingblues on Oct 2, 2014 21:35:52 GMT
I've been playing pieces from the Rob Mackillop Scottish Guitar book recently. Mainly from the Open D tuning section - which are arrangements of 17th century Scottish Lute pieces. I really like the chords and the resonances of this tuning in this style, though I'm not finding that tuning is sparking any improv or compositional ideas yet in the way that open G and DADGAD have. There are 20 tunes in that DADF#AD section of the book and I'm making sense of and at least starting to get to grips with half of them. But amongst the 10 I can't get a handle on there are 6 pieces all with "Port" in the name. According to Rob MacKillop a port is a (gaelic) tune/air and he says the pieces are full of subtle shifts and shades and there is nothing else in world musical culture that sounds remotely like these pieces. Maybe that explains why I can't make head or tail of the damn things. They just don't sound like anything and I can't work out how to shape the phrases. Think I'll have to resort to listening to his CD of them - I usually only do that after I'm getting somewhere with a piece so I get more of my own interpretation. I know a few other people on the forum have this book - anyone else have this issue with "ports". Ought to be some way of working "any port in a storm" into this post but I don't have the energy to think it through. I'm also reminded at this point of a bit of an irritation. With DADF#AD (and for that matter DADGAD) there seems to be extensive use in TABS generally of the fingering of fret 2 and fret 5 with the pinkie straining away when it is often not necessary. EG in DADF#AD the 2nd fret of the second string and the 5th fret of the 6th when 5th fret 3rd string and 5th fret 6th is so much easier, OR 2nd fret 5th string with 5th fret 2nd string when the open 1st string does the job. I end up sticking little bits of post it notes on the paper to change the TAB and avoid my pinkie suffering even more permanent damage than it already has. It's been rather twinging the last few days - think it was extensive practice of that competition entry that caused that. Mark
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