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Post by vikingblues on Feb 26, 2014 20:57:38 GMT
I thought I'd document a bit of my attempts to get to grips with an acoustic and various open tunings. Hopefully it'll help me keep at it to avoid losing too much face. When I introduced myself on the forum at the beginning of January (seems a long time ago) discussion moved on to altered tunings, and in particular to Martin Simpson. In particular posts from Andy made me keen to look into them. So three days ago I received a copy of Martin Simpsons book and DVD on the subject. I listened to the section on Open D that night, and Open G the next day. Yesterday morning I retuned the guitar and started playing around in open G. Then had to go to work .... RATS! Not much time last night, but did have tonight - put the microphone on to capture what was going on as a reference point in the future and for a post playing evaluation - not so easy to be listening critically while playing - it's a different part of the brain. My impression so far is that Martin Simpson is covering some fairly basic principles (thankfully!) but in a very musical way. I found myself having the feeling I was on the edge of discoveries when I listened to his lessons - usually a sign I'll connect with a teacher and their methods. I like the way he's drawn attention as to how useful the three adjacent strings (2nd, 3rd and 4th) are for harmonised elements of teh major scale. Also the way he highlighted the use of the pairs of strings. Plus the potential use of bass notes. I've used open G a bit in the past - but mainly just for slide. When playing fretted notes I've tended to get too Keef Richards. In the past. But not now. I like the musical sounds and resonances I'm getting. Link to recording attached - trying things out so not planned, smooth or mistake free. And I'm still tending to lose concentration due to listening to the tones from this TW73. Looking forward to exploring this all lots more. First Steps in Open GSorry long post. But I'm excited by this journey!
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 27, 2014 19:43:49 GMT
Another day. Open G seems to provide more possibilities than open D, though it's shame the 6th string is a bit redundant? Somehow easier to get melodic sounds though? I have a feeling it's because the three adjacent strings for harmonised elements of the major scale are the 2nd, 3rd and 4th strings (while with D it's the 3rd, 4th and 5th). This gives more melodic notes in the upper registers. Plus the 1st string - the only one above them is paired with the 4th, so it's easy to double up on the higher notes of the first string. With open D there's two strings above to have to sort out. I could be talking rubbish though. Wouldn't be the first time. I do like the way all the open strings work with pretty well anything in Open G. I had the guitar in DADGAD for a while but found the 3rd string nearly always needing some attention a bit of a stumbling block. However I see Martin Simpsons book has DADGAD later on so maybe he will have suggestions that would get round that. If anyone has any special moves or tips on things that work well with Open G I'd be very keen to hear about them. I intend to wrestle with each tuning for a while before moving on to the next.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2014 20:39:50 GMT
Open G but with the bottom string as a C might float your boat maybe?
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 28, 2014 8:57:33 GMT
Open G but with the bottom string as a C might float your boat maybe? Thank you for that thought. I have a feeling I saw that Open G with the 6th dropped to C in relation to a Martin Simpson piece? Maybe "Who Knows Where The Time Goes"? Funny how each small change moves to another tuning. After dropping that 6th to C if I raise the 2nd to C I get CGDGCD which I think is Orkney tuning used by Martin Simpson and Pierre Bensusan. I've seen it said that Orkney is a sensible step and easy to adapt to from Open G. Or from the open G I can raise the second string to C for Gsus4. So many choices! Drop the 4th and 3rd string of Orkney for CGCFCD (Open Csus4). Anyway in the interim I'm trying to explore how to bring that 6th string D more into play in Open G - with it being doubled (trebled?) with the D notes on the 4th and 1st strings there ought to be good possibilities. What I do know for sure is that my wee TW73 sings very nicely in the altered tunings I've tried so far - helped by the resonance of doubled strings of course. All great fun.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 10:26:38 GMT
How low can your TW73 go? My Stonebridge is what I use for a tuning evolved from Open C - B E B F# B E (but C F C G C E might be low enough). It might be of no use/interest to you but the fifth string being dropped further from the Open C relation of notes makes it a sort of hybrid tuning in feel - hybrid of Open C and Open G (but lower). Allows root notes on the bottom two strings. I hope I have the discipline in the next couple of years to use it to, instead of coming up with fingerpicked chordal parts for songs I won't write, to write more elaborate instrumentals.
...Ah in writing that I felt like picking my guitar up but someone's just started drilling and banging.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 10:39:20 GMT
Also isn't there an open G that has a G on the bottom and the fifth tuned to B?
I came up with a tuning the other day that I'll probably forget if I don't write it down. It's an added 9th chord, D add9:
D F# (as in, the F# normally found on the second fret of the low E), A (like an open A on the normal fifth string), D (like the usual open fourth string), A, E.
A one finger barre on all six strings does make a delicious sounding chord because of both the low 3rd and the added 9th, and some doodling showed it was melodically useful. Maybe the same relation of notes higher up would be better especially if using light strings:
E, A flat, B, E, B, F# - yep that looks reasonable doesn't it. Oh dear I need another guitar to keep in this tuning - happily I won one on eBay yesterday and am collecting it tomorrow...
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windminstrel
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Post by windminstrel on Feb 28, 2014 14:20:49 GMT
After dropping that 6th to C if I raise the 2nd to C I get CGDGCD which I think is Orkney tuning used by Martin Simpson and Pierre Bensusan. I think Pierre Bensusan plays exclusively in DADGAD. Pierre Bensusan Website.There is a recent(ish) July 2013 You Tube video from Martin Simpson, where he explains one of his latest tuning:
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007
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Post by 007 on Feb 28, 2014 16:29:04 GMT
enjoyed reading this as I have been very conservative with my tunings.
Keep the tuning blog going VB
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Post by ianlp59 on Feb 28, 2014 16:30:43 GMT
Enjoy the journey ! Martin uses a variety of altered tunings, all of which are modal tunings. Very occasionally he has used open G, mainly for slide stuff. His most common tunings are : CGDGCD - G Sus 4/4 - Orkney tuning DGDGCD - G Sus 4 DADGAD - D sus 4 CGCGCD - C Sus 2 CGCFCD - C Sus 4 add 9 If you are interested in Martin's stuff and the tunings and arrangements he comes up with then I would strongly suggest considering attending one of his weekend workshops up in Sheffield. This year's April workshop is full but he intends to hold another weekend workshop later in the year in November (21st,22nd & 23rd). Also, there are tabs for a lot of his stuff available (for sale) on his website Martin Simpson as well as details of his workshops. The workshop weekends are a blast, worth it just to see Martin play close up and personal for the weekend. Friday and Saturday nights comprise of mixing with other attendees and swapping tunes and jamming and so on. Every attendee gets a workshop cookbook to take away with them with a lot of valuable material on the tunings and associated theory covered during the weekend. You can also request some free tabs (from yours truly) which I e-mail out. Cheers, Ian
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andrewjw
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Post by andrewjw on Feb 28, 2014 20:00:19 GMT
Enjoy the journey ! Martin uses a variety of altered tunings, all of which are modal tunings. Very occasionally he has used open G, mainly for slide stuff. His most common tunings are : CGDGCD - G Sus 4/4 - Orkney tuning DGDGCD - G Sus 4 DADGAD - D sus 4 CGCGCD - C Sus 2 CGCFCD - C Sus 4 add 9 If you are interested in Martin's stuff and the tunings and arrangements he comes up with then I would strongly suggest considering attending one of his weekend workshops up in Sheffield. This year's April workshop is full but he intends to hold another weekend workshop later in the year in November (21st,22nd & 23rd). Also, there are tabs for a lot of his stuff available (for sale) on his website Martin Simpson as well as details of his workshops. The workshop weekends are a blast, worth it just to see Martin play close up and personal for the weekend. Friday and Saturday nights comprise of mixing with other attendees and swapping tunes and jamming and so on. Every attendee gets a workshop cookbook to take away with them with a lot of valuable material on the tunings and associated theory covered during the weekend. You can also request some free tabs (from yours truly) which I e-mail out. Cheers, Ian Accurate advice I'm sure... But.. It would be great to see MS contributing to the forum personally...
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Post by vikingblues on Feb 28, 2014 20:31:46 GMT
How low can your TW73 go? That remains to be seen. When Scayles set it up for me they did say it might need higher gauge strings if I went down to the C type tunings. Remains to be seen - I do play with a pretty light touch so I will get away with it a bit better as there's a lower chance of buzzes. As long as the strings don't start feeling like rubber bands. I suppose I can always to the same relative tuning of strings to each other but up half a step - would still be the same learning principles. Also isn't there an open G that has a G on the bottom and the fifth tuned to B? I came up with a tuning the other day that I'll probably forget if I don't write it down. It's an added 9th chord, D add9: D F# (as in, the F# normally found on the second fret of the low E), A (like an open A on the normal fifth string), D (like the usual open fourth string), A, E. A one finger barre on all six strings does make a delicious sounding chord because of both the low 3rd and the added 9th, and some doodling showed it was melodically useful. Maybe the same relation of notes higher up would be better especially if using light strings: E, A flat, B, E, B, F# - yep that looks reasonable doesn't it. Oh dear I need another guitar to keep in this tuning - happily I won one on eBay yesterday and am collecting it tomorrow... Some adventures you're having there - I can see then when (if!) I get to the end of the Martin Simpson lessons I'll still have plenty of possibilities to explore. Not least a number of the mans own tunings that aren't in the lessons. The lesson set is quite a few years old - maybe before he got so heavily into some of his current favourites. I think Pierre Bensusan plays exclusively in DADGAD. Which just shows I should double check things I see written on the internet! enjoyed reading this as I have been very conservative with my tunings. Keep the tuning blog going VB I hope I will keep it going. Still enjoying it. Making progress each day helps. I started making more sense of teh bottom string D this morning before going to work - but I'm not sure I can remember now what I did! Enjoy the journey ! Martin uses a variety of altered tunings, all of which are modal tunings. Very occasionally he has used open G, mainly for slide stuff. His most common tunings are : CGDGCD - G Sus 4/4 - Orkney tuning DGDGCD - G Sus 4 DADGAD - D sus 4 CGCGCD - C Sus 2 CGCFCD - C Sus 4 add 9 If you are interested in Martin's stuff and the tunings and arrangements he comes up with then I would strongly suggest considering attending one of his weekend workshops up in Sheffield. This year's April workshop is full but he intends to hold another weekend workshop later in the year in November (21st,22nd & 23rd). Also, there are tabs for a lot of his stuff available (for sale) on his website Martin Simpson as well as details of his workshops. The workshop weekends are a blast, worth it just to see Martin play close up and personal for the weekend. Friday and Saturday nights comprise of mixing with other attendees and swapping tunes and jamming and so on. Every attendee gets a workshop cookbook to take away with them with a lot of valuable material on the tunings and associated theory covered during the weekend. You can also request some free tabs (from yours truly) which I e-mail out. Cheers, Ian Thanks Ian. Something that I really ought to at least consider. Though it sounds terrifying. My playing goes to pieces badly enough in front of people I know. But in the hearing / presence of a guitar God I'd be a nervous wreck. But.. It would be great to see MS contributing to the forum personally... Wouldn't it just.
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 5, 2014 19:53:19 GMT
So a weeks gone by since my "First Steps in Open G" soundclip. Been playing around with the Open G a fair bit since then. I'm finding the harmonised major scale shapes on strings 2,3 and 4 very pleasing. Now I'll agree that those shapes exist on those three strings in standard tuning ..... ..... BUT ..... it's so much more difficult in standard tuning to makes sense of what notes will fit in on the other strings. Chord shapes and relationships which vary across the fretboard come into play in standard tuning and confuse my poor old tired brain. In this open tuning those paired up strings makes things simpler - the 5th to go with the third, the 1st (and 6th) to go with the 4th. It certainly makes improv so much more feasible for someone with my limited technical/theoretical knowledge. The fact that it's easier to know which notes fit is great - the extra resonances with the doubled up notes and open string harmonies is pure gravy. I can see the potential for putting some planned pieces together too - if I can be disciplined enough. I really like Martin Simpsons ability to simplify and get to the musical essence. Also the way he gives you a broad and simple set of guidelines and lets you get up and running yourself is great. I've looked at open tunings a fair few times in the past and never found teaching that I could connect with so quickly and effectively. Great players are often bad teachers but I'm reckoning Mr S is a master of both. Most open tunings lessons I've seen in the past seem to concentrate on how to play standard chords in that tuning - which seems to me to mean you lose out on a huge amount of what makes an open tuning different and special. So by way of a progress report here's a soundclip. More melodic lines work than in my effort of a week ago. Bit scrappy in places but I was making it up as I went along, and hadn't had a great nights sleep! First Steps in Open G Part 2Think I'll probably work through these various tunings with a fairly short time on each at first. I can then go back and do more work on the ones that seem most promising. Open C is next and Gsus4 is not far behind that (the bluesy edge from that one intrigues me). Till later .... Mark
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Post by ocarolan on Mar 5, 2014 23:37:12 GMT
Some good sounding explorations there Mark - sounds like you're really getting to grips with this tuning. Could almost hear you "loosening up" towards the end especially. Keith
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Post by delb0y on Mar 6, 2014 13:38:29 GMT
Nice playing Mark - great sound on the little TW.
I've been focussing on DADGAD recently and have been working up my first DADGAD tune. I've more or less got it together and must record and post it for the good folks here. I think I might call it Broken Down Treadmill because really it's just a bunch of exercises linked together that I generally get wrong!
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Post by vikingblues on Mar 6, 2014 19:01:28 GMT
Some good sounding explorations there Mark - sounds like you're really getting to grips with this tuning. Could almost hear you "loosening up" towards the end especially. Keith Great to hear you say that Keith. I get so involved in the process of learning something new it gets very difficult to tell if there's real progress or that I'm kidding myself! These improv type of recordings of mine often work out the way you describe by the way - hesitant and perhaps over controlled at the start and getting looser and more flowing by the end ... makes sense I suppose and can make it sound like the piece has more structure than it does. Nice playing Mark - great sound on the little TW. I've been focussing on DADGAD recently and have been working up my first DADGAD tune. I've more or less got it together and must record and post it for the good folks here. I think I might call it Broken Down Treadmill because really it's just a bunch of exercises linked together that I generally get wrong! Thank you Del. I can't stop playing the TW73 - yesterday found me listening to an audio podcast (talking only) while reclined on the couch and still playing the guitar. I've taking to wandering round the house with it strapped on too. Be interested to hear your DADGAD tune. I have tried DADGAD in the past and got some results but always found that need to have a note fretted somewhere on the 3rd string nearly all the time an issue. I see that this tuning appears later in the Martin Simpson book/DVD I'm working on .... .... so I'm very interested to see what sort of suggestions he has on that. I've tried Open G a few times before and it never really clicked until now. The way Martin Simpson sets out his guiding principles on exploring the tuning just clicks with me big time - a very different approach to any that I've seen before. Usually it's all based around learning chords - which really doesn't encourage easy melodic improvs or even making up tunes - not for me anyway. So far it's very like this is maybe going to be one of those "AH-HAH" moments I can look back on with learning guitar that only turn up once every few years.
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