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Post by andyhowell on Jul 28, 2014 20:02:34 GMT
This will be great to follow Andy. I enjoyed your two blog entries about the decision-making process. What ever happened to that mysterious furniture maker? That's a very interesting looking neck. Do the sides get inserted into those grooves cut into the base of the neck like on a classical guitar? All the best with the wait. Cheers, marcus No idea Marcus! I shall ask! |
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 28, 2014 20:05:39 GMT
This will be great to follow Andy. I enjoyed your two blog entries about the decision-making process. What ever happened to that mysterious furniture maker? No idea about the furniture maker, I don't think Graham ever heard about him again. Graham had been a dealer for a long time and knew his guitars - he thought these were very special! I think the guy had done one of the Totnes courses but I may have been wrong about that. |
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 28, 2014 20:16:10 GMT
Andy, the second link, NGC II, takes me back here..... But, using your first link to your blog, I found, read and enjoyed Part 2!  K Keith - some time I will get used to this interweb thingy ... |
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ocarolan
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Post by ocarolan on Jul 28, 2014 22:15:54 GMT
Andy, the second link, NGC II, takes me back here..... But, using your first link to your blog, I found, read and enjoyed Part 2! K Keith - some time I will get used to this interweb thingy ... ... not sure I ever will! I've sorted your link, though no idea how to make it read nicely like your previous one! Keith |
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Post by Phil Taylor on Jul 29, 2014 6:57:10 GMT
Well done Andy and very interesting blogs too The Pavilion sweep is a nice looking guitar - look forward to the build progressing  Phil |
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garynava
Luthier / Guitar Maker
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Post by garynava on Jul 29, 2014 7:07:02 GMT
Thanks for starting this thread- always good to see the work of a fellow luthier! Although I've never met Mr. Lucas, we're almost neighbors!
Cheers Gary
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Post by ajlucas on Jul 29, 2014 8:06:47 GMT
I thought I should jump in here and answer a couple of technical questions that have been posted.
The wenge back runs to flatsawn at the edges. I've never worried too much about this for backs: woods such as birds eye maple only exhibit that figure (the birds eye) when flatsawn.
The heel is indeed slotted in the style of a classical guitar, although the slots are angled to accommodate the angles at which the sides meet it.
I'll keep an eye on this thread and am happy to answer any further questions.
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alig
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Post by alig on Jul 29, 2014 8:12:43 GMT
Adrian,
Ah, of course...
I was curious about the slots in the heel - only just re-read your interview and noticed the vid of this model of guitar. I understand now... (A minor miracle, in itself...).
As usual, I'm fascinated by build threads - thanks to you and Andy for this.
Alasdair.
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Post by scripsit on Jul 29, 2014 9:05:45 GMT
Andy
Some great looking Wenge there, although I imagine Adrian will be picking splinters out of various parts of his body on a daily basis, from what I've read about this timber. Looks and sounds lovely, but is rumoured to be painful to work with hand tools.
How did you arrive at the fan fret proportion? And where will the horizontal fret be? Did you get to try something similar to what you're asking for beforehand? I've never had the chance to try a fan fret guitar, but the possibilities seem endless and a bit confusing. I agree that it would be nice to drop down to a bass C , or maybe even lower, without strings 'flapping'. C is as low as I like to go on 650 mm with medium strings.
Kym
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 29, 2014 10:05:57 GMT
Andy Some great looking Wenge there, although I imagine Adrian will be picking splinters out of various parts of his body on a daily basis, from what I've read about this timber. Looks and sounds lovely, but is rumoured to be painful to work with hand tools. How did you arrive at the fan fret proportion? And where will the horizontal fret be? Did you get to try something similar to what you're asking for beforehand? I've never had the chance to try a fan fret guitar, but the possibilities seem endless and a bit confusing. I agree that it would be nice to drop down to a bass C , or maybe even lower, without strings 'flapping'. C is as low as I like to go on 650 mm with medium strings. Kym Adrian seems a great fan of wenge, uses it a lot and seems quite comfortable working with it. When I was at his house a showed me a newly assembled box in wenge quite a shock seeing a guitar at that state. To be honest I've tried to come to the fan fret principle in a very simple way. I wanted a little more tension on the base. I could have gone for a longer scale all round but decided that I'd try and keep the sweet treble. I know longer scale guitars can sound great but when you a re commissioning something yourself you can obviously do what you like! This guitar will — I think —will be predominantly played in three tunings — CGCGCD, CGCFCD and CGDGCD and the moderate increase in bass length should give me what I want. Any lower than this I and I will be buying a baritone. I spent a bit of time talking to Robbie about his custom Brook guitars. Originally he had been thinking fan fret but under their advice opted for the longer scale. If you go to the Dream Guitars You Tube Channel you can find an interview with Paul Heumillier about his own guitar. While I sometimes find Dream G to be a bit over the top he seemed to be looking for the same kind of thing as I am. As for the horizontal fret, I just don't know where it will be! I know Adrian has been taking advice fro other builders. I've played a few over the last couple of years and honestly have't paid much attention to the horizontal fret, mainly because I didn't really appreciate all this discussion. I am surprised at the lengths some people go to specify woods, dimensions and so on. I'm not a guitar builder so I really do not want to get too much into that. I was happy to leave everything to Adrian apart from the width of the fingerboard! The woods and so on were basically chosen by Adrian as he listened to me play. My third blog will be about this experience. Very different! At the end of the day the builder knows their instruments and the woods they use. Basically, Adrian wouldn't let me even contemplate some woods! |
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 29, 2014 10:36:08 GMT
Adrian has just popped onto the Acoustic Guitar Forum. the Perpendicular/Horizontal fret will be at the 8th fret ...
...if that makes sense to anyone!
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Post by andyhowell on Jul 29, 2014 12:19:10 GMT
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Post by earwighoney on Jul 29, 2014 19:32:15 GMT
I thought I should jump in here and answer a couple of technical questions that have been posted. The wenge back runs to flatsawn at the edges. I've never worried too much about this for backs: woods such as birds eye maple only exhibit that figure (the birds eye) when flatsawn. The heel is indeed slotted in the style of a classical guitar, although the slots are angled to accommodate the angles at which the sides meet it. I'll keep an eye on this thread and am happy to answer any further questions. Thanks for the reply to the information Adrian, I always thought luthiers preferred straight grain quarter sawn wood for the sake of stability; but the more I read of different luthiers opinions there's no 'right' answer! Wenge is one of the finest tonewoods though; I rate it with the best rosewoods. I noticed the guitar has a Spanish heel/neck joint. That kind of joint seems pretty rare for a steel string guitar, would it be possible to ask if there is any particular reason for such a feature over dovetail/bolt-on neck joints considering a neck reset can not be performed with such a neck joint? |
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Post by ajlucas on Jul 30, 2014 6:59:25 GMT
I always use the Spanish heel on steel string guitars: I think it gives a great structural integrity because the guitar body is built around the neck/soundboard whose angles and alignments are already set by the workboard or solera. I continue the top surface of the neck right up to the soundhole brace so that the fingerboard is sitting on the same piece of wood from end to end. This is great for stability as well as resonance.
A neck reset can still be performed by freeing the back from the heel, adjusting the neck angle and re-gluing. This would involve ungluing the back binding in that area and cutting the rebate deeper.
I think the advantages to structural integrity outweigh the possible future inconvenience of a neck reset decades down the line. The whole concept of building the neck and body separately and then joining them at the end of the process seems to derive largely from the American steel string tradition which comes from a mass production standpoint where these methods make a lot of sense for production reasons. I know this approach also existed in Europe before the American steel string phenomenon and is universal in violin making, but I think the impetus in modern steel string hand building came largely from people looking at the construction of old Martins and such.
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garynava
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 460
My main instrument is: Stanley No.5
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Post by garynava on Jul 30, 2014 7:07:50 GMT
I always use the Spanish heel on steel string guitars: I think it gives a great structural integrity because the guitar body is built around the neck/soundboard whose angles and alignments are already set by the workboard or solera. I continue the top surface of the neck right up to the soundhole brace so that the fingerboard is sitting on the same piece of wood from end to end. This is great for stability as well as resonance. A neck reset can still be performed by freeing the back from the heel, adjusting the neck angle and re-gluing. This would involve ungluing the back binding in that area and cutting the rebate deeper. I think the advantages to structural integrity outweigh the possible future inconvenience of a neck reset decades down the line. The whole concept of building the neck and body separately and then joining them at the end of the process seems to derive largely from the American steel string tradition which comes from a mass production standpoint where these methods make a lot of sense for production reasons. I know this approach also existed in Europe before the American steel string phenomenon and is universal in violin making, but I think the impetus in modern steel string hand building came largely from people looking at the construction of old Martins and such. Hear, Hear! There is far too much American influence in instrument building- why ignore centuries of European masters. Cheer Gary |
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Jo whoever he is.
