colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397 
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Post by colins on Apr 7, 2015 15:14:36 GMT
I always use an X-braced back on my guitars, I like a fairly stiff reflective back on a steel string guitar. I do use ladder braces on classicals, but then my classicals are traditional Torres. There is a big difference in the playing position for steel string compared to classical. In a classical you can have an active back as the player doesn't have the guitar pressed against their stomach. With a steel string if you do build an active back, by the time it is held against the beer belly of an 18st bearded folkie, well it's not going to be very active anymore. Another advantage of the X-braced is that it hold the back radius better, than ladders do, it doesn't rely on being glued to the rims to maintain the long axis dome.
I have built probably more steel string guitars with English Walnut than almost any other wood, OK probably more with the various mahoganies. I much prefer wood from the walnut/mahogany end of the spectrum for finger-style players, they have less of a tendency to get muddy sounding, and give better separation, in my opinion.
I've never built with a walnut neck, I know Dave has. My necks do end up very stiff, which I think is the important factor, this gives much better sustain, and an even voice over the whole neck, which is critical for any player not restricted to the cowboy chords.
Colin
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Post by johnhale on Apr 10, 2015 10:04:19 GMT
Cowboy chords that's me alright, can't wait to see the finished product
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leoroberts
C.O.G. 
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 10, 2015 10:07:03 GMT
Nowt wrong with cowboy chords, johnhale, there's many a successful career been built on 'em  |
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Post by earwighoney on Apr 10, 2015 10:19:27 GMT
I always use an X-braced back on my guitars, I like a fairly stiff reflective back on a steel string guitar. I do use ladder braces on classicals, but then my classicals are traditional Torres. There is a big difference in the playing position for steel string compared to classical. In a classical you can have an active back as the player doesn't have the guitar pressed against their stomach. With a steel string if you do build an active back, by the time it is held against the beer belly of an 18st bearded folkie, well it's not going to be very active anymore. Another advantage of the X-braced is that it hold the back radius better, than ladders do, it doesn't rely on being glued to the rims to maintain the long axis dome. I have built probably more steel string guitars with English Walnut than almost any other wood, OK probably more with the various mahoganies. I much prefer wood from the walnut/mahogany end of the spectrum for finger-style players, they have less of a tendency to get muddy sounding, and give better separation, in my opinion. I've never built with a walnut neck, I know Dave has. My necks do end up very stiff, which I think is the important factor, this gives much better sustain, and an even voice over the whole neck, which is critical for any player not restricted to the cowboy chords. Colin Thanks for the info. Interesting aspects to the back, things I wondered about but didn't know about. IMO the neck is one of the most undervalued aspects to the guitar, I really like necks in the multi piece laminated way from a aesthetic perspective and from experience; I have a Guild 12 with a 3 piece neck which has been great in the years I've had the guitar. Are stiff necks less likely to move/require adjustment? |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 10, 2015 16:04:29 GMT
As this forum title includes 'Soundboard' I guess I'd better make some. The brace layout I use for my OO-13 fret guitars uses an X, one tone bar with a brace normal to it and one finger brace on each side. I also use and A brace off the X brace passing through apertures in the UTB and set in the head block.  All of my braces are inlet into each other with a mortice and tenon, so once profiled in the 25' radius dish the braces are inlet and test fitted.  The braces are glued with HHG in the go-bar deck starting with the X then working from top to bottom.  Next day I do a preliminary carving of the braces and then cut the apertures in the UTB and glue it, the bridge plate and the small brace behind the plate.    Finally the UTB is carved and the top voiced.  This is the top for the Claro guitar, the process is repeated for the POC top for the all English guitar, except 'The Tree' is used for the braces and the bridge plate is Bog Oak instead of Euro spruce and Padauk ( got to love Padauk it's Orange! )  Finally on the backs, all of the X Braces and the UTB are inlet into the linings, and on the tops, the upper legs of the X and the UTB are inlet into the linings and the A inlet into the headblock. And the plates are now ready to glue to the rims.   Archery season starts tomorrow, so nothing more till Sunday. Colin |
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Apr 10, 2015 16:26:00 GMT
Colin, Looking great.  Did you have to make "The Tree" braces any higher/wider than the Euro Spruce ones for the top? Have fun with your archery - it must be hell wearing tights in this hot weather (Mel Brooks joke)  |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 10, 2015 16:37:04 GMT
Hi Dave, yes they are about 1mm wider, and maybe the same higher to start with, but I'm not sure there is anything in it once voiced, but I did want to give myself the option. They were a bit more work to carve as the grain is a bit more varied.
Oh and I carry off tights really well!
Colin
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Apr 10, 2015 17:21:36 GMT
Looking fab, Colin! I used to dabble in archery too (20+ years ago), but I've still got all the gear, including the tights |
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 10, 2015 18:19:31 GMT
I also use and A brace off the X brace passing through apertures in the UTB and set in the head block. Obviously I know what an UTB is - I'm not thick. But, colins, there's probably some idiots on here who aren't as clever as what I am do be... would you like to tell them? |
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Apr 10, 2015 18:32:50 GMT
I also use and A brace off the X brace passing through apertures in the UTB and set in the head block. Obviously I know what an UTB is - I'm not thick. But, colins, there's probably some idiots on here who aren't as clever as what I am do be... would you like to tell them? Thanks, Leo! I was too embarrassed to ask  |
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 10, 2015 18:43:39 GMT
I think we should have a "Guess The Acronym" competition 'til colins has run out of arrows.... I'm going to go with Universal Transverse Brace. Or maybe Unusually Tricky Bugger |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 10, 2015 18:44:04 GMT
Leo, Martin, I realise that you are only asking for the benefit of others more intellectually challenged. The UTB is the Upper Transverse Brace. It's the Brace that is Transverse to the Upper bout. Just to confuse you a bit more on a classical it would be called the Upper Harmonic Bar.
Colin
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 10, 2015 18:44:59 GMT
Crap. He run out of arrers quicker than expected... seeing off them Frenchies, I hope!
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 10, 2015 19:45:48 GMT
Looking fab, Colin! I used to dabble in archery too (20+ years ago), but I've still got all the gear, including the tights Martin, you wouldn't recognise the equipment now, I just laid out a four figure sum for a new riser and limbs, all composite carbon, even the stabilisers now are wind tunnel tested oval configuration, to be more stable in cross winds. A complete bow including riser, limbs, sight, stabilisers, button etc can easily cost the same as a custom made guitar, and of course you need a spare! Colin |
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leoroberts
C.O.G.
Posts: 26,142
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 10, 2015 19:54:02 GMT
and of course you need a spare! Colin Like guitars in more ways than one, then! 6 strings to your bow? |
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Did you have to make "The Tree" braces any higher/wider than the Euro Spruce ones for the top?
Jo whoever he is.
