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Post by Mike Floorstand on Apr 10, 2015 21:29:12 GMT
Never tried archery but I do have a pair of tights.
(Obviously made from the latest ultra-hi-tech sports fabric. For real men).
Enjoying the build thread!
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135 
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Apr 10, 2015 22:34:08 GMT
I decided UTB must mean "Ugly Thick Bit" when I was trying to understand how bracing worked. So, perhaps foolishly, I decided to miss it out and see what happened on my first build! I've nearly finished the guitar now and I still can't quite see what it does so... can someone (point me at something that will) explain. It is big and it is a bit ugly so I'm sure it does something or other but it just seems to be doing it in the wrong direction. No doubt I'll come to understand why it's there when I put strings on the thing...
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Apr 11, 2015 7:42:35 GMT
I decided UTB must mean "Ugly Thick Bit" when I was trying to understand how bracing worked. So, perhaps foolishly, I decided to miss it out and see what happened on my first build! I've nearly finished the guitar now and I still can't quite see what it does so... can someone (point me at something that will) explain. It is big and it is a bit ugly so I'm sure it does something or other but it just seems to be doing it in the wrong direction. No doubt I'll come to understand why it's there when I put strings on the thing... In conventional guitar construction without other means of support such as flying buttress bracing it's main job is to stop the end of the fingerboard disappearing into the box and the rest of the guitar top collapsing into the sound hole under string tension. But that could be a false rumour spread by luthiers - you'll find out.  |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 11, 2015 7:42:50 GMT
I decided UTB must mean "Ugly Thick Bit" when I was trying to understand how bracing worked. So, perhaps foolishly, I decided to miss it out and see what happened on my first build! I've nearly finished the guitar now and I still can't quite see what it does so... can someone (point me at something that will) explain. It is big and it is a bit ugly so I'm sure it does something or other but it just seems to be doing it in the wrong direction. No doubt I'll come to understand why it's there when I put strings on the thing... I'm sorry, you decided on your first guitar to leave out the UTBs because you didn't understand what it did and it was a bit ugly! Have you noticed that every guitar out there has them, steel strings, classicals. It is a major structural element of the guitar which helps stop the thing folding in half. Off to fire arrows. Colin |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Apr 11, 2015 8:08:34 GMT
I decided UTB must mean "Ugly Thick Bit" when I was trying to understand how bracing worked. So, perhaps foolishly, I decided to miss it out and see what happened on my first build! I've nearly finished the guitar now and I still can't quite see what it does so... can someone (point me at something that will) explain. It is big and it is a bit ugly so I'm sure it does something or other but it just seems to be doing it in the wrong direction. No doubt I'll come to understand why it's there when I put strings on the thing... I'm sorry, you decided on your first guitar to leave out the UTBs because you didn't understand what it did and it was a bit ugly! Have you noticed that every guitar out there has them, steel strings, classicals. It is a major structural element of the guitar which helps stop the thing folding in half. Off to fire arrows. Colin |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Apr 11, 2015 8:27:38 GMT
I decided UTB must mean "Ugly Thick Bit" when I was trying to understand how bracing worked. So, perhaps foolishly, I decided to miss it out and see what happened on my first build! I've nearly finished the guitar now and I still can't quite see what it does so... can someone (point me at something that will) explain. It is big and it is a bit ugly so I'm sure it does something or other but it just seems to be doing it in the wrong direction. No doubt I'll come to understand why it's there when I put strings on the thing... In conventional guitar construction without other means of support such as flying buttress bracing it's main job is to stop the end of the fingerboard disappearing into the box and the rest of the guitar top collapsing into the sound hole under string tension. But that could be a false rumour spread by luthiers - you'll find out. |
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Apr 11, 2015 8:39:25 GMT
In conventional guitar construction without other means of support such as flying buttress bracing it's main job is to stop the end of the fingerboard disappearing into the box and the rest of the guitar top collapsing into the sound hole under string tension. But that could be a false rumour spread by luthiers - you'll find out. Sorry, I didn't realise that your top was made from envelopes. |
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R the F
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 1,135
My main instrument is: bandsaw
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Post by R the F on Apr 11, 2015 9:39:41 GMT
Sorry to be a bore, chaps, but this UTB thing is bothering me and I won’t take “envelopes” for an answer!
To be serious, then. I know that it is said to be there to stop both ends of the guitar sliding together into a black hole under string tension – but surely the string tension will tend to fold the guitar if it finds a big solid bar preventing a slide; like standing against someone’s feet before you try to pull them up off the floor.
I have also noticed that 99% of guitars have them; but that doesn’t explain anything. We all have an appendix (to start with) but that doesn’t mean it’s any use to us. What I am looking for is an engineering explanation (I suppose) as to how this works as a “major structural element of the guitar which helps stop the thing folding in half”.
I’m certainly not suggesting I know any better than thousands of makers before me but it seems to me that contemporary luthiers are generally a reliable and sharing bunch who will take a hard fresh look and apply proper logic to what they are doing. Somewhere someone must have explained how the UTB does what it’s supposed to do; or does everyone assume that someone else must know?
I might also ask why the wood-grain on a bridge isn’t orientated along the length of the guitar – but that’s a question for another day.
Thanks for your patience.
Rob
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 16, 2015 14:16:43 GMT
Back to building. The plates are now ready to be glued to the rims, this is done in the go-bar deck, using fish glue. First the backs are glued.   When both backs are on, I add the labels, for guitar 80 and 81.  Then the soundboards are glued on.   Once both tops are on I like to rout the plates level with the sides and then put the closed box in the troji and just give a quick level sand.  One other small job done was to bend the bindings and the top wood purflings. These were all done together so they were taped together, remembering to lay them out in their pairs, then bent in the side bender. The English guitar will have Bog Oak bindings and the Claro, English Cherry.   Next job is to rout the channels for the binding and purfling, but this will have to wait a few days as I am waiting for some new router bits to arrive. So I guess I'd better concentrate on tea drinking and biscuit eating till then. Colin |
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leoroberts
C.O.G. 
Posts: 26,184
My main instrument is: probably needing new strings
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Post by leoroberts on Apr 16, 2015 14:20:30 GMT
Interesting label placement, colins - is it deliberately hidden? I don't remember you having a headstock motif so... |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 16, 2015 14:30:52 GMT
Leo I have never been a fan of headstock inlays, I guess it's also being a classical builder. I also prefer the label to be visible through the soundhole but not 'in your face' so I put it where you have to look for it, but is still easily read.
Colin
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Post by earwighoney on Apr 16, 2015 15:59:21 GMT
I have never been a fan of headstock inlays. Colin I'm in agreement. I generally prefer the aesthetic of headstocks without inlays. I quite like the nylon string tradition of the shape of the headstock being a means to differentiate. |
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davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
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Post by davewhite on Apr 16, 2015 17:55:05 GMT
Colin, Looking great   Is "The Tree" 80 or 81? Given that our house was built in the mid 1930's and "The Tree" would have been planted soon after it's about the right vintage |
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 16, 2015 18:04:39 GMT
Dave, the Tree is #81, I bent the Claro sides first so that becomes #80.
Colin
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colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
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Post by colins on Apr 22, 2015 14:03:36 GMT
Next step is to install the binding and purflings. The new router bits have arrived so no more prevarication lets take a carbide bit spinning at 30000 rpm to my closed boxes, not nervious at all! Two guitars to do with similar binding purfling schemes, but care must be taken not to assume that settings for one guitar will work with the other. Care should also be taken that the sides are set in the cradle so that they are perfectly vertical.  The new router bits (1/4" downcut by Whiteside) did their bit, nice clean fuzz free channels.   I always then dry fit first the purfling, to check the fit and adjust with a chisel if needed, when that is done I install the back binding and purfling and the top purfling. With my wide top purflings I like to get those in and when the glue has dried re-check the binding fit and make any needed adjustment, then in with the top binding. On these two the claro guitar is getting cherry binding with claro and B/pear/B purfling and the all English guitar has bog oak binding and dyed sycamore/pear/dyed sycamore and English walnut purfling. Lots of fish glue and brown tape later and the first one is revealed. the top purflings are planed/scraped/sanded level and the sides are levelled. I like to level the sides to the binding, rather than the binding to the sides as this ensures that the binding stays even all around the guitar. Lots of sanding still to do.      One down one to do, that'll be tomorrow.  Colin |
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