|
|
Post by alexkirtley on Feb 8, 2016 17:43:53 GMT
I normally only use soundhole pickups, but my Martin D15 just doesn't look right with them, so I'm going to put an undersaddle or soundboard transducer pickup in, but I'm going in blind, any suggestions for a good one to go for?, ideally active, don't want to deal with external pre-amps, also, no internal mics
Thanks
|
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,396 
|
Post by colins on Feb 8, 2016 19:59:39 GMT
K&K mini are the only pickups I will ever willingly put into my guitars.
Colin
|
|
|
|
Post by lavaman on Feb 8, 2016 20:52:09 GMT
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,711
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Feb 8, 2016 22:37:11 GMT
I'm with Colin and Iain. Yes, I know you didn't want passive, Alex, but the output from K&K minis is pretty high for passive pickups. You'll be fine straight into a combo, and even a PA in most circumstances.
(I do usually go a preamp, not just for the slightly more natural sound (IMHO) but for the extra eq control, plus the ability to switch off quickly without going near the amp.)
Keith
|
|
|
|
Post by scorpiodog on Feb 9, 2016 12:09:53 GMT
Another vote for K&K Mini here. I had one put in my Martin HD28, and, when amplified, it sounds just like the Martin, but louder. I also have one in my Brook, and guess what? It sounds just like my Brook, but louder!
I've tried all sorts, UST's, Fishman Rare Earth and other soundhole pickups, contact mics, but I've not found anything that does what a K&K does.
And as Keith says, I've never needed anything between the guitar and the pa, though sometimes I choose to for the control it gives me.
|
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,396
|
Post by colins on Feb 9, 2016 13:48:04 GMT
Another vote for K&K Mini here. I had one put in my Martin HD28, and, when amplified, it sounds just like the Martin, but louder. I also have one in my Brook, and guess what? It sounds just like my Brook, but louder! I've tried all sorts, UST's, Fishman Rare Earth and other soundhole pickups, contact mics, but I've not found anything that does what a K&K does. And as Keith says, I've never needed anything between the guitar and the pa, though sometimes I choose to for the control it gives me. Absolutely, they are the only pickup I have tried that just amplifies and does not change the character of the instrument. Also never found it necessary to add a pre-amp just plug straight in to the amp.
Look no further!
Oh, I get mine here: www.jp-guitars.co.uk/sales/pickups_and_amplification/kandk_acoustic_guitar_pickups_passive.htm#Pure_Mini
Colin
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,711
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Feb 9, 2016 14:01:02 GMT
- another recommendation for Jon Press from me too, Colin. Definitely one of the good guys, very helpful on the phone and also puts his stuff on eBay a lot.
As well as preserving the differences in tone between different guitarswo specific points about the K&K sound - the difference in playing dynamics between instruments is also preserved. And in addition the "front end" of individual notes is more accurately reproduced than other pickups I have tried.
These things contribute hugely to allowing me to play the same way as if I were unplugged, whereas with the other pickups I have tried there always seems some need for me to have to back off a little/a lot on attack to get the sound I want, thereby losing the "feel" of playing the guitar as I wish.
Keith
|
|
|
|
Post by scorpiodog on Feb 9, 2016 15:45:37 GMT
Thomann have them for 95 euros (just over £70) with 10 euros delivery. No questions answered and negligible customer service, though. here |
|
andrewjw
C.O.G. 
Posts: 4,876
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by andrewjw on Feb 9, 2016 15:59:03 GMT
Just a couple of thoughts re using a K and K with or without a preamp...and on acoustic PU's in general. If you have other instruments that have an active PU source be it a soundhole pick up or a UST you'll find you will get a much hotter signal than with the K and K unless you use it with a preamp. This won't be to much of a problem if you have a dedicated input into your amp/PA if which you plan to use specifically for the K and K equipped instrument...you can just raise the input gain to match the output level of your other [active] instruments. If however you use a simple A/B switch or similar so you can connect two instruments to the same channel and easily switch between the two ....not such an unusual scenario if available inputs are limited... you'll find you'll need to use a preamp with the K and K instrument to get a similar output gain into the A/B switch and thence to the amp/PA. Not a problem of course if all your instruments have K and K's! We have five amplified instruments...a mandolin with a passive Fishman powerbridge , a guitar with an active Fishman Rare Earth sound hole PU , a guitar with an active Fishman Ellipse combined UST and mic , a mandocello with an active Headway UST and a square necked reso with a passive K and K. All of these systems were recommended by the luthiers that installed them...Manson's for the soundhole PU , Martin Cole for the mandolin , Brook Guitars for the Ellipse system and Gary Nava for the Headway UST. The K and K was already installed in the Reso so don't know the history there. Maybe we're just lucky  but we manage to get a natural sound out of all of them with a bit of judicious use of various preamps...and I'm OCD re live sound. The reso with the K and K goes into the same preamp as the mandocello...a Headway EDB1...which has two inputs with separate gain controls. The gain for the active mandocello is set about halfway which gives a strong signal without clipping...to get a similar signal for the passive K and K equipped reso the gain is turned to the max..fortunately the same EQ settings work well for both instruments. I've just reread this...really boring unless you are into this sort of thing...apologies!  |
|
|
|
Post by alexkirtley on Feb 9, 2016 17:34:53 GMT
Thanks guys, I really want to find out what pickup Malcolm Holcombe uses, that sounds really good to me
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,711
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Feb 9, 2016 18:15:01 GMT
Thanks guys, I really want to find out what pickup Malcolm Holcombe uses, that sounds really good to me ... there's a lot more to a person's sound than the pickup they use.... Keith |
|
andrewjw
C.O.G.
Posts: 4,876
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":""}
|
Post by andrewjw on Feb 9, 2016 18:58:56 GMT
Thanks guys, I really want to find out what pickup Malcolm Holcombe uses, that sounds really good to me I see he has "contact me" page on his website...  Plus what Keith just said... |
|
|
|
Post by alexkirtley on Feb 9, 2016 19:21:29 GMT
Found out it was the Martin thinline 332 passive ust.
I've been checking up on the K&K pure mini and I don't think it is for me, it feeds back at higher volumes (and I'm a person who likes to play hard and occasionally put my guitar through an overdrive pedal for fun) and it seems a bit too 'soft' in a way, so I'm leaning more towards an undersaddle
|
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,711
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Feb 9, 2016 19:38:40 GMT
Never had any feedback problems with K&K, even with guitar in floor monitors and loud bass player. Never had to resort to aggressive eq to reduce feedback. Never used a soundhole cover. Much depends on positioning (you/monitor/mains), on stage volume and expectations.
The "soft" you refer to is probably the realistic attack and front edge of the notes that K&K SBTs provide. If you want "hard" fronts to notes then yes, UST is the way to go - but it is also the reason why many avoid USTs. Horses for courses, as always.
If you really do want to go UST then Headway make the best sounding ones I've come across. Still a little harsh for me for solo use, but I did use one in a band situation a while back.
Keith
|
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,396
|
Post by colins on Feb 9, 2016 22:38:25 GMT
Found out it was the Martin thinline 332 passive ust. I've been checking up on the K&K pure mini and I don't think it is for me, it feeds back at higher volumes (and I'm a person who likes to play hard and occasionally put my guitar through an overdrive pedal for fun) and it seems a bit too 'soft' in a way, so I'm leaning more towards an undersaddle I've fitted more than a dozen of these and never had any complaints about feed back even from guys that push them hard, I think this is blaming the tool rather than the workman. I've never really heard an undersaddle that kept the guitar sounding like a quality acoustic, they always sound harsh and synthetic to me.
As I said I won't consider putting anything other than K&K into my guitars, if a player wants something different, well they can get someone else to fit it, or preferably buy a different guitar, as I don't want people thinking my guitars sound like that.
Colin
|
|
but we manage to get a natural sound out of all of them with a bit of judicious use of various preamps...and I'm OCD re live sound. 
Jo whoever he is.
