|
|
Post by andyhowell on Feb 19, 2016 8:23:57 GMT
That is looking very good Dave!
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 19, 2016 17:19:23 GMT
Thanks Francis and Andy. The neck is shaped to meet the fingerboard edges and then the fingerboard is levelled. A small amount of relief is then shaped in with a slight drop away towards the bass side from fret 9 upwards. I’m hoping that the carbon fibre in the neck will keep things stable without too much back bow from fretting compression. The string tension should then pull a small degree of relief in the neck – that’s the plan. If not I’ll take the frets off and shape more relief into the fingerboard:  Time to install the stainless steel frets made in Belarus as all good flamenco frets are  Before pressing the frets in the slot edges are shaped with a triangular file - this helps the frets seat and minimises chipping of the fretboard if the frets have to be removed:  |
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397 
|
Post by colins on Feb 19, 2016 21:20:18 GMT
Dave, looking superb, the bog oak is a great substitute for ebony. I loved it when I used it for the English guitar after you suggested it to me. Sintoms fret wire eh, the first fretwire I ever used and still one of the best.
You may find, especially with the CF, that the string tension doesn't induce any extra relief, I often have to pull a few frets and add more. If you are going to finish with the bridge on, which is often done with classical and flamenco guitars, then using a temporary saddle and nut you can string it up in the white and check for relief before fretting. But I guess it's too late for that.
Colin
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 19, 2016 22:09:23 GMT
Dave, looking superb, the bog oak is a great substitute for ebony. I loved it when I used it for the English guitar after you suggested it to me. Sintoms fret wire eh, the first fretwire I ever used and still one of the best. You may find, especially with the CF, that the string tension doesn't induce any extra relief, I often have to pull a few frets and add more. If you are going to finish with the bridge on, which is often done with classical and flamenco guitars, then using a temporary saddle and nut you can string it up in the white and check for relief before fretting. But I guess it's too late for that. Colin Colin, No - it's not too late, I only have the first two frets installed and I have been thinking about just what you suggest. Yes - the bridge will go on next with the finish coming after and like on jonnymosco's I'm tempted to string it up in the white first so I think I'll leave the fretting there and get the bridge made and on, adjust the relief as necessary and then complete the fretting. Like Jonny's the finish will be precatalysed lacquer on the back sides and neck and Liberon Finishing oil on the top. |
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 22, 2016 11:23:01 GMT
OK - bridge on first, string up and sort out neck relief and then fret  The original plan was to make the bridge from Brazilian Rosewood but this introduces another wood that doesn’t sit with the overall aesthetic. I dug out lots of different wood bridge blanks and measured and weighed them to calculate average densities. Indian Rosewood is used a lot for flamenco guitar bridges and my pieces of this were 867 g/m3. Interestingly a Bog Oak bridge blank came out at 802 g/m3 and is in the perfect range. So a Bog Oak bridge it is then . The Bog Oak bridge blank has the bottom curvature matched to the top’s. Then the 18 string holes are marked and drilled with a 2mm drill bit:  The saddle slot is then routed using this jig:   The groove for the strings between the saddle and tie block is then routed:  The two wings are then rough cut:  The bridge has the saddle slot area reduced to 6mm high, the bridge is shaped and ramped and a piece of Coyote wood glued to cap the tie block. Weight with the bone saddle blank is 20g:   Here’s the bridge with bone saddle fitted positioned on the guitar:  |
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
|
Post by colins on Feb 22, 2016 11:58:38 GMT
Dave, nice bridge, 18 hole is definitely the way to go. The bog oak bridge I made on the all English guitar was the lightest steel string bridge I have made, and your 20gm bridge is right where I like my classicals to be. What strings are you going to use?
Colin
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 22, 2016 13:36:18 GMT
Colin - I'm using La Bella 2001 Medium Tension Flamenco Strings that seemed to work well on Jonny's guitar. The bridge is carefully positioned on the top and masking tape used to form a “nest”. Two 2mm holes are drilled in the saddle slot through the top so that parts of cocktail sticks can be super glued in to hold the bridge in the correct position whilst gluing:   The bridge is then glued on using hot hide glue with the caul to span the fan braces positioned underneath:  |
|
francis
C.O.G. 
Posts: 2,483
My main instrument is: Whatever I'm building...
|
Post by francis on Feb 22, 2016 13:46:30 GMT
Are you using any particular masking tape for this Dave - no problems with the grain tearing out when you remove it?
|
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 22, 2016 14:00:40 GMT
Are you using any particular masking tape for this Dave - no problems with the grain tearing out when you remove it? Francis, Just ordinary masking tape. Port Orford Cedar doesn't seem to have the grain tearout issues with tape that Spanish Cypress and some spruces have - it almost has a waxy finish to it when sanded and scraped down. |
|
davewhite
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Luthier
Aemulor et ambitiosior
Posts: 3,548
|
Post by davewhite on Feb 26, 2016 12:28:38 GMT
The guitar was strung up and the neck relief checked and adjusted. Now it’s time to complete the installation of the stainless steel frets made in Belarus. The frets above the body are pressed in using these cauls:  Here’s “El Xiprer” strung up “in the white”:  The saddle is down so that the strings are 8.8mm above the soundboard at the moment and this gives an action of just about 3mm, so when things settle I think it will be around 2.75mm action with the strings 8mm above the soundboard. It should work fine. Neck relief seems fine - plays well up and down the neck with no buzzing but I'm hoping for some flamenco rattle when the saddle comes down a bit more. The bass strings of the La Bella 2001 Medium Tension strings sounded fine but the black nylon trebles were rubbish. I had a spare set of trebles from a set of Savarez Alliance Corum 500AR strings – normal tension fluorocarbons – so put these on instead and they are fine. So here’s a recording of me playing some “flamenco pastiche” on “El Xiprer” "in the white" and strung up for the first time. This was recorded straight into my Zoom H4n with flat EQ and no added effects: "El Xiprer" |
|
colins
Luthier / Guitar Maker
Posts: 2,397
|
Post by colins on Feb 26, 2016 12:44:13 GMT
Dave, nailed it in one! Most definitely a flamenco guitar. I can put you in touch with Antonio Suarez Salazar ('Guardiana') and Sara Baras if you want to put a tour on.
Colin
|
|
Martin
Administrator
Posts: 11,994
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"http://mandocello.org/lytebox/images/adirondack.jpg","color":""}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0a530b
Mini-Profile Text Color: 4f3517
Member is Online
|
Post by Martin on Feb 26, 2016 13:03:10 GMT
Then it’s out with “ The Scutter” to cut the binding channels. Please tell me you call it "Bob"  This build is gorgeous! Now, do I need a flamenco guitar??? Sounds excellent, as well! You're not too shabby a player, Senor Blanco |
|
ocarolan
Global Moderator
CURMUDGEONLY OLD GIT (leader - to join, just ask!)
Posts: 35,724
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"c0cfe1"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 182a3f
Mini-Profile Text Color: 733a1c
|
Post by ocarolan on Feb 26, 2016 13:23:10 GMT
Looking and sounding good Dave!  Keith |
|
|
|
Post by earwighoney on Feb 26, 2016 14:13:11 GMT
Lovely work Dave. I really like the look of the pegged headstock. Sounds on the deep and warm side of a blanca as well, fine work.
I find an action of around 2.75mm to 3mm to be a good one for playing flamenco and getting the right amount of buzz.
As for the LB 2001 MT trebles, did you find them a bit 'plasticky'? If that makes sense. I think I might have had that problem with the ones that I tried.
Great 1st or 2nd flamenco guitar though. Do you have any plans to make any more? I hope El Xiprer is the start of many more flamenco guitars to come and a 655mm negra of 'The Tree' and some of Bob Smith's finest would be what I would like to see next!
|
|
missclarktree
C.O.G.
Posts: 2,429 
My main instrument is: It varies
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"1979e6"}
Mini-Profile Name Color: 100605
Mini-Profile Text Color: 020a12
|
Post by missclarktree on Feb 26, 2016 14:38:31 GMT
Looks and sounding very flamenco |
|
Before pressing the frets in the slot edges are shaped with a triangular file - this helps the frets seat and minimises chipping of the fretboard if the frets have to be removed:
Jo whoever he is.
